Crossbows makes archery look like a silly pursuit.

[Jarlek]

His problem is probably that you're completely wrong.
PD gives the 14% bonus only for each PD ABOVE the PD requirement for the bow, so 5 PS hornbow : 0% PD bonus.

So wrong. Each PD gives you 14% more damage, but it has an upper limit at PD requirement +4. A guy with a horn bow and 6 PD gets the bonus from all 6 PD, not just the 1 above the requirement.

[LastKaze]

Why nerf me?

[Leshma]

Crossbow is great weapon, great in the hands of pure builds but also good for hybrids. Archery on the other hand is great if you're rolling pure build and sucks if you're trying to make hybrid archer. Solution is simple, buff archer hybrids.

[Rumblood]

Crossbow is great weapon, great in the hands of pure builds but also good for hybrids. Archery on the other hand is great if you're rolling pure build and sucks if you're trying to make hybrid archer. Solution is simple, buff archer hybrids.

What is this? I don't even.....is this Leshma?

[Adamar]

Crossbow is great weapon, great in the hands of pure builds but also good for hybrids. Archery on the other hand is great if you're rolling pure build and sucks if you're trying to make hybrid archer. Solution is simple, buff archer hybrids.

Then half the players would be carrying a bow, which is bad. I agree with the devs on this point.

[Vkvkvk]

Crossbow is great weapon, great in the hands of pure builds but also good for hybrids. Archery on the other hand is great if you're rolling pure build and sucks if you're trying to make hybrid archer. Solution is simple, buff archer hybrids.

Not entirely true though.

On my 21/18 hybrid archer alt character with +3 Horn bow and 7 PD, on average, all I give up is a bit of athletics and on average 3 damage over a 18/2x +3 Rus bow/Long bow build for the ability to have 7 PS in melee combat and the ability to field a 1 slotted weapon.

[Jarlek]

Not entirely true though.

On my 21/18 hybrid archer alt character with +3 Horn bow and 7 PD, on average, all I give up is a bit of athletics and on average 3 damage over a 18/2x +3 Rus bow/Long bow build for the ability to have 7 PS in melee combat and the ability to field a 1 slotted weapon.

Yep. Nothing wrong with hybrid archers.

[Bulzur]

So wrong. Each PD gives you 14% more damage, but it has an upper limit at PD requirement +4. A guy with a horn bow and 6 PD gets the bonus from all 6 PD, not just the 1 above the requirement.

Knew about the +4 above PD limit, but not that the actual meant anything.
Does PD add the percentage damage based on BOW, or based on BOW+ARROWS.
Because... Mw horn bow, Mw Tatar arrows : 33 base damage. 6 PD : +84% : 60.72 damage. Without the wpf. Yes, it's cut damage... but... still... I doubt it do this much damage to even an unarmored person.
Doesn't feel right. :s

[Vkvkvk]

Knew about the +4 above PD limit, but not that the actual meant anything.
Does PD add the percentage damage based on BOW, or based on BOW+ARROWS.
Because... Mw horn bow, Mw Tatar arrows : 33 base damage. 6 PD : +84% : 60.72 damage. Without the wpf. Yes, it's cut damage... but... still... I doubt it do this much damage to even an unarmored person.
Doesn't feel right. :s

Sounds about the average damage archers does. This 60.72 though is probably with the best possible diceroll at absolute point blank and unmitigated by armor though.

[Leshma]

Not entirely true though.

On my 21/18 hybrid archer alt character with +3 Horn bow and 7 PD, on average, all I give up is a bit of athletics and on average 3 damage over a 18/2x +3 Rus bow/Long bow build for the ability to have 7 PS in melee combat and the ability to field a 1 slotted weapon.

Xbowmen don't have to sacrifice anything, can have proper 2H pure build with a little bit WM on top for xbow. Also they can use more armor and 2 slot greatsword.

I didn't say archer hybrid si completely useless but it does seem useless compared to xbow hybrid and that's why on every hybrid archer you see 50 or more xbow/2h hybrids.

[Havoco]

It would be so much easier if it would show the dice roll possibilities on the character page.

[Vkvkvk]

Xbowmen don't have to sacrifice anything, can have proper 2H pure build with a little bit WM on top for xbow. Also they can use more armor and 2 slot greatsword.

I didn't say archer hybrid si completely useless but it does seem useless compared to xbow hybrid and that's why on every hybrid archer you see 50 or more xbow/2h hybrids.

True. I just mostly see archery vs crossbow as a difference in rate of fire more than anything else and the fact that some people might like or find melee easier than ranged.

I see it as Crossbow hybrid being melee orientated rangers and Archers hybrid as ranged orientated rangers. Unless pure builds, but that's something else.

[Jarlek]

Xbowmen don't have to sacrifice anything, can have proper 2H pure build with a little bit WM on top for xbow. Also they can use more armor and 2 slot greatsword.

I didn't say archer hybrid si completely useless but it does seem useless compared to xbow hybrid and that's why on every hybrid archer you see 50 or more xbow/2h hybrids.

Archer hybrids are fine, but pure archers are too powerful. Make them as xbows, at it's most efficient when hybrided.

[Leshma]

Then half the players would be carrying a bow, which is bad. I agree with the devs on this point.

80% of infantry players carry ranged weapon, xbow or throwing stuff. I'm talking about EU1. Even Tzar, who hates everything ranged couldn't cope with archers so he started carrying javelins or something like that.

[Leshma]

Archer hybrids are fine, but pure archers are too powerful.

I disagree.

Pure archers who are fully loomed and have proper proper high level build are strong. Those who have everything listed and a lot of experience are powerful. But none of them is too powerful, not even bagge.

Pubbies don't know how to fight archers, just like they don't know how to fight cav. And because of that both classes seem too powerful for them. But that's not true, this is coming from a player who rarely uses shields yet killed so many archers.