Author Topic: Repair costs...  (Read 1643 times)

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Offline Brutal_KGB

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Repair costs...
« on: July 08, 2012, 03:50:41 am »
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So anyone who's beyond 1st or 2nd gen will probably not care about this, but those of us that still haven't reached 31 yet to get an heirloom point to sell, repair costs are keeping us from playing.

I currently wear 39,862 gold worth of gear in my normal setup.  Now, according to everything I've read, any character SHOULD be able to wear about 50k worth of gear and basically break even over a long period of time.  The reason I wear less is to make sure that I don't lose gold so often that I can't even wear my gear at all.

Unfortunately, this happens quite a lot.  If I wear this gear, I pretty much always lose gold.  Right now I'm down to less than 3k, and I can't even afford to wear this stuff so my only alternative is to run around in peasant clothes with just a weapon.  That is NO FUN.  Before anyone rebutts with "win more for mutilplicatorz1!!" please understand that an individual has almost zero effect on whether or not your team wins, unless you are Miley.

That said, I can't control my multiplier, and aside from those fortunate few times when I do have 4-5x, I find myself losing too much gold.  Please, please, please reduce the repair costs or the chance to repair so newer players don't quit in frustration and have a chance to catch up to the veteran playerbase.

As an aside, how the hell did so much gold get into the economy with these repair costs?  Do people AFK in servers for gold during off hours or are there really that many people that have fun running around naked with a weapon?

Offline Tzar

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Re: Repair costs...
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2012, 04:09:33 am »
+1
Setup some stones for 10k an ill give u some gold to get u started.

With gear over 40k in total u want atleast a 20 maybe 30k buffer in between good rounds and bad rounds.

If u start out with less then 10k in gold  buffer wearing gear worth around 40k you will get caught unaware by bad luck streaks ect ect..

Imho i think upkeep have done what it was supposed to do an could at this stage might aswell be removed since so much changed since the need for upkeep in the first place.

« Last Edit: July 08, 2012, 04:14:09 am by Tzar »
I've never played a server where people split up as much or as often as on EU1.  No wonder range is having a field day.

Offline Son Of Odin

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Re: Repair costs...
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2012, 04:13:44 am »
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Just keep playing. It doesn't take that long to reach lvl 31 and sell a loompoint if you want. Back in the day we had it harder. No upkeep but gold was goddamn hard to earn, so some people were plated up to their teeth and new people wore peasant shit 24/7 until they could afford something better. It took several days or more like a week for me to get my first kill.

So man the fuck up and grynd 4 lyf
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Offline Jarlek

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Re: Repair costs...
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2012, 04:21:38 am »
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I just checked and found out my total equipment value is 18805. Huh.

Not that good with "how to earn much gold" tactics, apart from winning/reducing total gear cost, but post your full equipment list (and build too) and I'll help you downgrade your equipment without losing too much efficiency. Some "top tier" weapons are hilariously costly for their bonus (Knightly Arming Sword compared to Long Arming Sword for example). Having 50k worth of gear and breaking even is really, really long term and mainly for people in clans/individuals who win a lot. What gamemode you play also affects your income a lot.

Also, a buffer of 40k or more is really needed. Sometimes you repair all items all day :( Those times sucks.


PS: Post a marketplace link and I'll also buy stones for 10k.
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Offline rustyspoon

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Re: Repair costs...
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2012, 04:29:06 am »
+2
So anyone who's beyond 1st or 2nd gen will probably not care about this, but those of us that still haven't reached 31 yet to get an heirloom point to sell, repair costs are keeping us from playing.

I currently wear 39,862 gold worth of gear in my normal setup.  Now, according to everything I've read, any character SHOULD be able to wear about 50k worth of gear and basically break even over a long period of time.  The reason I wear less is to make sure that I don't lose gold so often that I can't even wear my gear at all.

Unfortunately, this happens quite a lot.  If I wear this gear, I pretty much always lose gold.  Right now I'm down to less than 3k, and I can't even afford to wear this stuff so my only alternative is to run around in peasant clothes with just a weapon.  That is NO FUN.  Before anyone rebutts with "win more for mutilplicatorz1!!" please understand that an individual has almost zero effect on whether or not your team wins, unless you are Miley.

That said, I can't control my multiplier, and aside from those fortunate few times when I do have 4-5x, I find myself losing too much gold.  Please, please, please reduce the repair costs or the chance to repair so newer players don't quit in frustration and have a chance to catch up to the veteran playerbase.

As an aside, how the hell did so much gold get into the economy with these repair costs?  Do people AFK in servers for gold during off hours or are there really that many people that have fun running around naked with a weapon?

40k in gear is kinda high unless you're on a horse. If I'm wearing my full armor set up I have 40k in gear. That also includes 3 weapons and a shield. So I have a feeling you're wearing too much stuff. Even with that gear though, I still make money. I also have another setup that I use a lot that only costs 14k. I make a shit-ton of money with that.

It's terribly easy to make money even if it's your first gen. There's really no reason why you'd need to go over 35k in gear. You can easily make money with that and have great gear.

There's a few things that can cause you to lose money though, even if you have reasonable gear costs:

1. Low WPF. The lower your WPF, the higher chance of upkeep.
2. You use bodkin arrows. Arrows have a higher chance of breaking than any other item. Combine that with bodkins being expensive as hell and you have yourself a problem.
3. You ride a horse. Shouldn't do that first gen anyway.
4. You play a lot of siege. The longer the round, the higher chance of upkeep.
5. You play battle on a high population server. Again, the longer the round, the higher the chance of upkeep.

Best way to make money is to play on a low population battle server. The rounds will be quick and you have a better chance of reaching higher multis.

I've made MANY new characters after the upkeep changes. It's still WAY easier to make money than it was before the multi system. Honestly, no one should have problems making money. But, time after time some new person comes in, doesn't read the forums, spends all their money on expensive shit and claims that the upkeep system is broken.
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Offline Brutal_KGB

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Re: Repair costs...
« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2012, 04:30:41 am »
+1
Setup some stones for 10k an ill give u some gold to get u started.

With gear over 40k in total u want atleast a 20 maybe 30k buffer in between good rounds and bad rounds.

If u start out with less then 10k in gold  buffer wearing gear worth around 40k you will get caught unaware by bad luck streaks ect ect..

Imho i think upkeep have done what it was supposed to do an could at this stage might aswell be removed since so much changed since the need for upkeep in the first place.

I appreciate the offer, but I'd really rather be able to support myself.  The thing is I usually play in my normal gear from about 15k down to around 5k, at which point I go cheap mode and die a lot.  But my normal gear isn't that expensive!  My bad luck streaks must be legendary or something.

What was upkeep supposed to do?  I only recently started playing so I wasn't here for that.

I just checked and found out my total equipment value is 18805. Huh.

Not that good with "how to earn much gold" tactics, apart from winning/reducing total gear cost, but post your full equipment list (and build too) and I'll help you downgrade your equipment without losing too much efficiency. Some "top tier" weapons are hilariously costly for their bonus (Knightly Arming Sword compared to Long Arming Sword for example). Having 50k worth of gear and breaking even is really, really long term and mainly for people in clans/individuals who win a lot. What gamemode you play also affects your income a lot.

Also, a buffer of 40k or more is really needed. Sometimes you repair all items all day :( Those times sucks.


PS: Post a marketplace link and I'll also buy stones for 10k.

To the last bit first, I play battle a lot, but if I start taking big gold hits I usually switch to siege because I tend to earn more there since there are more ticks per round.  Sometimes though, even siege breaks me.

My build is 21/17, going for 18 agi (though that will be at level 31 so, whats the point of that? lol).  5wm, 5ath, 7ps, 7if.  I use a bec, crossbow, and steel bolts for my normal setup.  Barbuta / Heraldic Mail with Surcoat / Mail Mittens / Iron Greaves.

I mean, I know I could downgrade and save money, but I already wear 38 body armor....  its the weapons that have the highest repair costs, but I've tried lesser polearms, and they suck.  The crossbow is the first thing I unequip during lean times..


EDIT:

40k in gear is kinda high unless you're on a horse. If I'm wearing my full armor set up I have 40k in gear. That also includes 3 weapons and a shield. So I have a feeling you're wearing too much stuff. Even with that gear though, I still make money. I also have another setup that I use a lot that only costs 14k. I make a shit-ton of money with that.

It's terribly easy to make money even if it's your first gen. There's really no reason why you'd need to go over 35k in gear. You can easily make money with that and have great gear.

There's a few things that can cause you to lose money though, even if you have reasonable gear costs:

1. Low WPF. The lower your WPF, the higher chance of upkeep.
2. You use bodkin arrows. Arrows have a higher chance of breaking than any other item. Combine that with bodkins being expensive as hell and you have yourself a problem.
3. You ride a horse. Shouldn't do that first gen anyway.
4. You play a lot of siege. The longer the round, the higher chance of upkeep.
5. You play battle on a high population server. Again, the longer the round, the higher the chance of upkeep.

Best way to make money is to play on a low population battle server. The rounds will be quick and you have a better chance of reaching higher multis.

I've made MANY new characters after the upkeep changes. It's still WAY easier to make money than it was before the multi system. Honestly, no one should have problems making money. But, time after time some new person comes in, doesn't read the forums, spends all their money on expensive shit and claims that the upkeep system is broken.

My gear is above, please tell me which part I am not allowed to use because I'm new.

My WPF in polearms is 140, 54 in crossbow.  Oh I forgot to mention that I use steel bolts amongst my gear, but those don't cost much to repair anyway.  I do play siege when battle starts costing too much, but I tend to make more there than I lose (?).

Also, I read the forums quite a lot before buying ANY of my gear, and made what I thought at the time were well informed decisions, so kindly take your condescension and shove it up your ass.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2012, 04:36:26 am by Brutal_KGB »

Offline Tzar

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Re: Repair costs...
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2012, 04:36:43 am »
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What was upkeep supposed to do?  I only recently started playing so I wasn't here for that

To prevent people using high tier armor and horses which the majority of the community at the time thought to be OP it have since then been nerfed alot an tbh is complete trash compared to other armor setups or horses at this stage in item balance.

And to prevent people using several items at once FX Arbalest/steel bolts / great swords comes to mind. Slot system off course have broken that setup anyways an thank god for that lol.
I've never played a server where people split up as much or as often as on EU1.  No wonder range is having a field day.

Offline Bobthehero

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Re: Repair costs...
« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2012, 04:41:41 am »
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I'd downgrade the greaves, take some maille chausse or leather boots.

Maybe go down 10-15 armor on the helmet as well.
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Re: Repair costs...
« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2012, 04:48:27 am »
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38k is a lot, man. I'm known to wear some pretty heavy armor, 2 weapons, and a shield, and with mail gauntlets instead of heavy gauntlets, I would pay 37k. There are many ways to downgrade.

Offline Brutal_KGB

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Re: Repair costs...
« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2012, 05:07:24 am »
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I'd like to keep this from a newbie help thread to what its supposed to be.  I'm suggesting that upkeep is over the top expensive right now and I haven't seen any responses that refute this.  What I'm wearing is middle of the road stuff.  Transitional armor, crappy gloves, meh boots.  My helm and weapons are the only gear that's decent.  This setup should NOT cost this much to upkeep.

Repeat:  I have to wear nothing if I want to be able to use just my bec and still make any gold.

If you don't think this is a problem, well that's fine, please say so.  I however do think its a problem and I'm suggesting that it be addressed.  :)

Also, if you wear <20k worth of gear (at level 30) as your main gear set, please tell me what you're using.  I'd wager most people in the upper 20's and 30's wear about the same amount of gear as me, if not more.

Offline Tzar

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Re: Repair costs...
« Reply #10 on: July 08, 2012, 05:08:29 am »
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 :|
I've never played a server where people split up as much or as often as on EU1.  No wonder range is having a field day.

Offline Wraist

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Re: Repair costs...
« Reply #11 on: July 08, 2012, 05:36:35 am »
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Also, if you wear <20k worth of gear (at level 30) as your main gear set, please tell me what you're using.  I'd wager most people in the upper 20's and 30's wear about the same amount of gear as me, if not more.

Yellow/Red/White tunic or red shirt, leather gloves, wrapping boots, warhammer, shortbow, bodkins

Offline Brutal_KGB

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Re: Repair costs...
« Reply #12 on: July 08, 2012, 06:14:56 am »
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Archers don't wear armor because they stay at range, and less armor means more speed.  Thank you, but I guess I should have specified that I was referring to melee characters.

Offline Jarlek

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Re: Repair costs...
« Reply #13 on: July 08, 2012, 06:16:49 am »
+1
Alright, big post. Time to split it to several to make things more clear:

I appreciate the offer, but I'd really rather be able to support myself.  The thing is I usually play in my normal gear from about 15k down to around 5k, at which point I go cheap mode and die a lot.  But my normal gear isn't that expensive!  My bad luck streaks must be legendary or something.

What was upkeep supposed to do?  I only recently started playing so I wasn't here for that.
Good that you want to be independant. My suggestion is that you do whatever you need to do so you can get 40k in the bank and then start using normal gear. Don't try to drop beneath 40k and if you ever hit 20k, go cloth armour and quarterstaff (non-leecher, moneymaking outfit) to get back up to 40k. Might suck, but you should try to never run out of money. PS: the quarterstaff is a deadly weapon. Don't let it's price fool you. Same thing goes for the Voulge. Both are "crap" weapons, but are also more than capable of bringing tincans and whatever down. Note the secondary piercing mode for the Voulge too.

About upkeep:
Upkeep was introduced to give new players a chance. Back then, when you bought an item and could equip it, there was nothing that stopped you from ever NOT equipping it again. Gold, and thus gear, was seriously hard to get. This wasn't bad in the beginning since everyone started out with peasant stuff, but some grinders kept playing all the time and quickly started to outgear the others. Wasn't that bad for the non-grinders who started with them, as they usually got some medium stuff themselves, but for the people that THEN started playing, it was bad. Really really bad.
   New players that joined, found a game filled with many medium armoured guys and a few grinders with full plate armour, plated chargers, steel shield, heavy lance (or worse), a greatsword and a big ass 1handed sword (this was also before the "slots" patch). This looked badass when you started, but as people quickly realised; you would have to play a LOT before you got any gear yourself. All the time spent running around being useless. Getting some basic armour (heraldic mail for example) could take a LOT of time and was frustrating for most people. Think how much fun you would have if you were lucky to get 200 (and only 50 if you lost) gold in one round, everyone else used whatever the best gear they had, and all you had were the starting equipment. That was how it was.


To the last bit first, I play battle a lot, but if I start taking big gold hits I usually switch to siege because I tend to earn more there since there are more ticks per round.  Sometimes though, even siege breaks me.
Rageball, siege, battle, DTV. In that (decending) order is the gamemodes I usually earn the most gold in. Upkeep is tied to each "tick" (when you receive XP/gold) but only happens at the end of a round (or goal in rageball). Since you can't repair something twice, I usually find siege better for getting gold. Why? Because the rounds are generally long or very short. Short means it's a very low chance for stuff to break (maybe 1 or 2 ticks) while long rounds means that whatever broke has a higher chance of having broken "twice", making you bypass 1 of them. You also keep a multi longer as even if you lose, the defenders would have to let the time run out (lots of ticks!) or the attackers would have to breach all the defenses (takes time). It's not often a flag gets ninjaed, and when it does it's usually at the beginning, making for low break chances. This is why I prefer siege to gain gold.

Note: these are just my thought and experiences. I haven't done a study or anything of it, I just generally earn more money in siege.


My build is 21/17, going for 18 agi (though that will be at level 31 so, whats the point of that? lol).  5wm, 5ath, 7ps, 7if.  I use a bec, crossbow, and steel bolts for my normal setup.  Barbuta / Heraldic Mail with Surcoat / Mail Mittens / Iron Greaves.

I mean, I know I could downgrade and save money, but I already wear 38 body armor....  its the weapons that have the highest repair costs, but I've tried lesser polearms, and they suck.  The crossbow is the first thing I unequip during lean times..
If you plan on retiring, make lvl 30 builds. Always. Note that you can convert skillpoints to attribute point and back again. 2 skillpoints becomes 1 attribute point and vice versa.

Here's your equipment list as you posted:
(click to show/hide)
First of all. You got way too low wpf for using a crossbow regurarily. It's expensive and low wpf means you break it a lot. Having low wpf for a weapon is ok, but it's gonna break a lot so a 10k one with low wpf is not a good move (economically speaking). Either get more wpf or drop the crossbow, your choice. Lowering 2h wpf to 120 would only make a very small difference. PS: While the upkeep for steel bolts isn't that much, take note that the upkeep for normal bolts are virtuall non existant.

Secondly, the bec. This is one of the most expensive weapons in the game and also the first thing you should/can downgrade. I dunno if you prefer the bec because of the speed or the pierce damage, so I got two suggestions for you.

  • Speed: The Hafted Blade. Way cheaper and +1 faster. It's also longer, which I think is a much more important thing. You could also go for the Long Hafted Blade, but that one is also expensive. It's cut though, so remember that when you fight tincans. The spears are also a good choice, although they don't really have very good sideswings. Unless you like stabbing, I wouldn't take a spear. Are spears bad? No, but a quarterstaff is even cheaper and faster. The quarterstaff is a bit shorter than the spears, but still longer than your bec.
  • Pierce damage: Let me just say this. Against armour, Pierce is just as good as Blunt. There is a difference, but it's very small. This is why I recommend the Long Hafted Knobbed Mace and the Long Hafted Spiked Mace. Both are good and VERY similar to the bec. You also get the added bonus of knockdown. The main drawback is the "unbalanced" tag, but that really isn't that bad. You get slighlty less damage than the bec, but the knockdown and added reach makes up for it.


Note: The good thing with going with cheaper weapons is that a lot of people run around in light armour, expensive weapons. This makes you able to loot their weapons when they die. You can't loot armour, but you CAN loot weapons. Look around for opportunities, you might be surprised by what you pick up. Hell, I found my favorite weapon by picking it up from the ground and I doubt I'd buy it if I hadn't tested it first.

Armour:
Long story short, reduce your head and leg armour, increase your body armour. Think about it, where do you get hit the most? The body. Anyone hitting your head would do a LOT of damage anyway. Having a helmet is needed to not be one hit, but having a heavy one doesn't really improve it that much. Ofc, use a heavy helmet when you can, but if you have to choose between helmet or body, go for body. Hits to the head fucks your day anyway. I use a metal helmet not to defend my head that much, but to make my enemy not target the head (as naked body parts makes people aim for them).
   On the other side, anyone hitting your legs would do reduced damage anyway, so NO ONE aims for the legs. Body armour also gives you leg armour (and you even have one of the armours being more focused to the legs anyway) so hitting the feet is something very few people do. This makes leg armour generally not that important. The exception for this is horsemen, but they get hit in their legs because of their elevated position and not because people aim for it.

To put it like this:
If you go from Iron Greaves to Rus Cavalry boots, you lose 17 leg armour and gain 3k gold
if you change from Baruta to Iron Hat with Fluted Varangian Helmet, you lose 7 head armour and gain 2k gold.
Then you can boost your body armour with 5k (doubling it!) and get Blue Brigandine over Mail, giving you +8 body armour.

That gives you a total armour of:
(click to show/hide)

Which you can compare to your old ammount:
(click to show/hide)

Which one seems the best?

And keeping the heraldic mail and reducing the boots/helmet would still leave you at this:
Head: 43
Body: 42
Legs: 31

All these are suggestions though. Take what you want (maul chausses are sexy), just follow this: Reduce helmet/legs, increase body. Try to save some gold if you can.

EDIT:

My gear is above, please tell me which part I am not allowed to use because I'm new.
The crossbow and the bec. It's not because you are new, but because they are both top tier (where top tier means expensive and not the best) equipment. People aren't meant to use them and the ones you do can do it since they either a) saved up a lot of money or b) only does it occasionally. Having one of them works just fine regarding upkeep, but two does not. If you look around, most crossbow hybrids use either cheap armour, cheap melee weapon or the crossbow only at a few times. Pure crossbowmen usually use the 2 slot crossbows and the 2h mace (4k).


My WPF in polearms is 140, 54 in crossbow.  Oh I forgot to mention that I use steel bolts amongst my gear, but those don't cost much to repair anyway.  I do play siege when battle starts costing too much, but I tend to make more there than I lose (?).

Also, I read the forums quite a lot before buying ANY of my gear, and made what I thought at the time were well informed decisions, so kindly take your condescension and shove it up your ass.
As mentioned earlier, get more crossbow wpf if you regurarly want to use a crossbow. 54 is if you "use it once in a while".

Also good that you read the forums. Sadly a lot of the stuff around have been changed so many times, people don't know etc., and this game is complicated enough from the start. No wonder you/them/me (my first gen, 1h/2h/pole cav build and 90% of what I bought was horrible :rolleyes:) fucked up with choices a lot of times. That's one of the better ways to learn, though.


PS:
(click to show/hide)

What I would use 24/7 if there was no upkeep or upkeep was even more reduced:
(click to show/hide)

Archers don't wear armor because they stay at range, and less armor means more speed.  Thank you, but I guess I should have specified that I was referring to melee characters.
See "ninjas".
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Offline Son Of Odin

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Re: Repair costs...
« Reply #14 on: July 08, 2012, 06:41:15 am »
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Good post Jarlek.

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