Author Topic: Facts and myths about Lancer cav  (Read 12801 times)

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Offline FRANK_THE_TANK

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Re: Facts and myths about Lancer cav
« Reply #30 on: July 02, 2012, 02:08:11 am »
+4
Wall of text from a man with 8 renown! HA!

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Offline Kerrigan

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Re: Facts and myths about Lancer cav
« Reply #31 on: July 02, 2012, 02:47:26 am »
+3
i dont need to read anything. I know you biching like ur class is so hard and shit,but lance cav is easiest class in game right after piker.
You whole clan sux at fighting on ground and blocking so you all made clan of cav,and horse archers.
I was lancer for 3 generations and it is easiest class to get kills.
Get champion arabian warhorse,and mw lance and own everyone.
You must be 13/14 years old? Reading your text I have come to the conclusion that you are obviously still in puberty, so I will respond in a simular way, only with some better grammar. I raped your scrawny ass multiple times as infantry. I agree, not all of our members can block that well but put MUSASHI, Chagan, masasa, gorilla, Garrus, Makadus, Elmer, Hagoone, Remy, Ulruk, Darkoveride or Wolf against you and I would bet on them every damn time. Not because they are great blockers or fighters, but because they are definately better than you are. And I'm not saying that I am good at infantry by the way, I consider myself mediocre. If I'm mediocre, what does that make you?
I remember you being a lancer. I remember how you use to rage when I dehorsed/killed you aswell. You were not good at it. I have never seen you topscore as a lancer yet you say you get easy kills with scores like 20-0 and so forth. I highly doubt it.

The Verdict:
Don't talk shit, Mlekce. I thought u were a decent guy but it seems that you are just as simple and narrow minded as some other cRPG users. Or maybe it's puberty, who knows. Don't do drugs.

Oh, and I approve of this topic. A nice read and spot on. Although I fear that it will not help us lancers much. The majority of the cavalry haters can not be reasoned with.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2012, 03:04:47 am by Kerrigan »
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Offline Toodles

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Re: Facts and myths about Lancer cav
« Reply #32 on: July 02, 2012, 02:49:22 am »
+1
Good post!

I don't get the whining about horsemen - they're a very effective class in specific circumstances, utterly useless in others. The same CANNOT be said of polearm, two hand and one hand users who will do just as well in cramped situations as they will in the open. Horsemen DO take a huge risk going for "unaware" infantry, whether as a one hander swinging or two hander thrusting my success rate at dismounting or killing outright disregarding the two of us missing one another is about 70% - although I've never been successful at pulling the move on higher grade horsemen such as Oberyn or VAN Damme who're just too good at maneuvering in and out of range and adjusting their speed, although I find chambering the stabs can work quite well when they're circling and wiggling in and out slowly (with much less success since the overhead turn nerf, however).

Overall it's great fun fighting cav, as opposed to the endless pursuit of archers where theres little to do but wiggle senselessly in the hope they'll lead the shot the wrong way (although I do enjoy making them waste their arrows from afar by outfit viewing them and running in a straight line - then stopping when they shoot as if to tie my shoelaces :D).

Anyway my opinion is this : cavalry is a surprisingly well balanced class with high killing potential but at the cost of a greater necessity for appropriate terrain than any other.

Bjorn

PS : please don't chase cav.

Offline Kafein

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Re: Facts and myths about Lancer cav
« Reply #33 on: July 02, 2012, 02:57:54 am »
+1
I don't believe anyone is going to read that completely and attentively.

Except the ones that don't really need to be convinced. That's the problem with objective and sensible arguments.

The whole thing is biaised because it doesn't show the advantages of cav, which Renegat pretty much summarized. But still, the points being made stand.

The problem is infs are kids who play for fun rather than victory, and then complain here about th other classes. We'll kill each other so long as you infs play smart and hold, untill the cavs are down.

That's rubbish. Nobody will play a game just for the victory. Victory is only a medium through which you can enjoy the game, not the real end. cRPG was more entertaining to play back when victory mattered less and the overall atmosphere was centered around fun rather than competitiveness.

Also, with less competitiveness the need for balance falls down because nobody cares.



Anyway, I predict that even with no changes cavalry will be harder and harder to play in the future. Infantry already plays in loose formations, usually with pikes on both flanks, which prevents cav from attacking the group where it is weak, and with ranged support behind, which will do just as good, in a much wider zone.


In a group of infantry or ranged players, one aware guy is enough to cancel the horseman's attack and damaging/killing him and his horse.

Cav tends to be much more risky than infantry because safe kills are very rare. If you hang around the enemy group, you are alone, you will get shot and enemy cav will attack you. If you are downed nobody will come and rescue you. Infantry and ranged players on the contrary can very safely move and attack together, providing direct support to their allies.

Cav groups can do teamwork too, but cav teammates are much more dangerous than inf or ranged, even for other cav, because without precise coordination they will block your path and make you a sitting duck. There is nothing of the like in ranged or infantry groups, where only basic/no communication is required to make full use of your teammates.

As much as dealing with groups of enemies aware of you with any other class gives you decent chances, providing the group isn't ranged, is it borderline impossible for cav. Defeating one guy aware of you no matter his class if he doesn't take risks to kill you already is very difficult and relies more on his errors than on anything you can do (lance thrusts are the easiest weapon to block and chamberblock in the game, and dodging couched lances is only a tad harder, all with heavy armor of course). But if you ride close to multiple enemies there's bound to be one that will hurt you or your horse.

It takes something like this : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJCfUm21BsI for a cav to kill someone in a formation.

Offline Gurnisson

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Re: Facts and myths about Lancer cav
« Reply #34 on: July 02, 2012, 03:02:39 am »
+3
Cav tends to be much more risky than infantry because safe kills are very rare.

Opposite of what I experienced as lancer. :?
I voted Gurnisson cause of his fucking bendy pike, I swear noone can roflcopter stab like he can.

Offline Christo

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Re: Facts and myths about Lancer cav
« Reply #35 on: July 02, 2012, 03:08:11 am »
+2
Lancer cavalry should get some of it's old glory back.

"What glory?" you probably say.

Well, going head on against other cavalry, and not backraping people who are fighting.

Thanks to a lot of changes, cavalry players often avoid eachother. This is one of the main reason why there are so many horses.

Anti-cav Cavalry playstyle is pretty much impossible to pull off because the lancing angle is too strict, making fights random, a bit skill based but not as much as before.
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Offline Kafein

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Re: Facts and myths about Lancer cav
« Reply #36 on: July 02, 2012, 03:36:53 am »
+1
Opposite of what I experienced as lancer. :?

Depends on the playstyle too.

There's always people that play more reckless or more cautious, and it depends on what class they play.

I say this because I think if you stay with your buddies as 2nd line infantry, there's pretty much nothing that can happen to you and at some point you will steal a kill, same with ranged staying close to infantry.

As cav you have more freedom but good target are rare. You only have decent chances against peasants and 1h that try to kill you or anyone really unaware of you (which is not possible to know beforehand because of the ~ key), but more importantly, anything bad happening to you is much much worse when you ride a horse. Making an error and getting hit usually isn't a death sentence in melee, but that's not true for cav.

Offline ShinySpoons

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Re: Facts and myths about Lancer cav
« Reply #37 on: July 02, 2012, 06:58:38 am »
+1
Adding to Kafein, as cav its the easiest to rack up kills as well as the easiest to get killed. You're moving so fast much of the time either you run through a horde of infantry with nothing but a few arrows in you or you instantly die.

Also agreeing with the pikeman bit, you really don't do much damage to a horse when one stops them with a polearm.

Offline Vibe

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Re: Facts and myths about Lancer cav
« Reply #38 on: July 02, 2012, 07:50:08 am »
0
Honestly, I'm having the easiest time getting kills on my cav alt and it's only lvl 25 or so

Offline Smoothrich

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Re: Facts and myths about Lancer cav
« Reply #39 on: July 02, 2012, 08:25:46 am »
+1
As cav you have more freedom but good target are rare.

lol
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Offline Mlekce

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Re: Facts and myths about Lancer cav
« Reply #40 on: July 02, 2012, 08:28:16 am »
-1
Quote
You must be 13/14 years old? Reading your text I have come to the conclusion that you are obviously still in puberty, so I will respond in a simular way, only with some better grammar. I raped your scrawny ass multiple times as infantry.

i must be. I don't remember that,but if you say so...

Quote
I agree, not all of our members can block that well but put MUSASHI, Chagan, masasa, gorilla, Garrus, Makadus, Elmer, Hagoone, Remy, Ulruk, Darkoveride or Wolf against you and I would bet on them every damn time. Not because they are great blockers or fighters, but because they are definately better than you are.


Challenge accepted.

Quote
And I'm not saying that I am good at infantry by the way, I consider myself mediocre. If I'm mediocre, what does that make you?
I remember you being a lancer. I remember how you use to rage when I dehorsed/killed you aswell. You were not good at it. I have never seen you topscore as a lancer yet you say you get easy kills with scores like 20-0 and so forth. I highly doubt it.

there is nothing much to do vs champion arrabian warhorse and mw heavy lance. My gear was not loomed and not close good as yours.
You don't need to have top score to have a good score. 11:2 is not top score,but it is damn good score.
Main reason i didn't have top score is because i fought cav,not inf. I had balls to attack everyone even you riding straight ahead.

Quote
Don't talk shit, Mlekce. I thought u were a decent guy but it seems that you are just as simple and narrow minded as some other cRPG users. Or maybe it's puberty, who knows. Don't do drugs.

Oh, and I approve of this topic. A nice read and spot on. Although I fear that it will not help us lancers much. The majority of the cavalry haters can not be reasoned with.

That still doesn't change fact that lance cav is easy. Just accept that,and move on.
If you were fighting on ground you would all have middle score,or below,but as cav you always have top scores so that says much about cav.
Even beer have top score as lancer. :P

Offline Smoothrich

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Re: Facts and myths about Lancer cav
« Reply #41 on: July 02, 2012, 08:31:53 am »
-1
any "dedicated lancer cav" posting in this thread saying their class is difficult or underpowered is a liar protecting their hilariously OP and broken class, where 17-4 is a BAD score for any map

lance damage needs to be 25 percent less, horse stats should all be lowered significantly (especially maneuver and charge), ranged should do more damage to horses, and might as well make horses twice as expensive in upkeep

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Offline BlueKnight

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Re: Facts and myths about Lancer cav
« Reply #42 on: July 02, 2012, 09:54:51 am »
0
Seriously, we need something better than just "kills" statistics to determine who is helping their team the most.

Killing the enemy team's all-star best player gives the same statistical reward as stabbing an afk torch-wielding nake.

The best system would display MANY more stats!  Damage dealt, kills, dehorsings.  A combination thereof (arbitrary points) would be best for ranking, and as a kicker it should be weighted to reward more points for dealing damage/killing/dehorsing higher value targets.

"cost of enemies' gear" multiplied by % of the hp you have taken away from the enemy and divided by 100. so for example 33k*0,4*0,01= 132 points huh ?
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Offline Leshma

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Re: Facts and myths about Lancer cav
« Reply #43 on: July 02, 2012, 10:58:34 am »
-1
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« Last Edit: July 02, 2012, 11:50:09 am by Leshma »

Offline Smoothrich

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Re: Facts and myths about Lancer cav
« Reply #44 on: July 02, 2012, 11:41:06 am »
+1
I'm the only twohander on EU servers who can, reliably, win in lancer vs 2h situations even if lancers do not make mistakes. I only lose to them if I make mistake, which means that in my case outcome depends on me.


lol sure you pretentious shit poster
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