The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide

[Strider]

Ya i'm definetely trying a hoplite build next gen because of this. Thanks man.

[Zanze]

I just wanted to bump this thread while also adding another bit of information I have gathered this generation as a hoplite. I posted it elsewhere and figured it might be nice here too. Also, this was all measured with an 18/18 build maximizing WM for the extra damage and speed.

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Extremely viable, but definitely the hardest class to play. From my experience, with a great shielder you can 2v5+ and come out on top easily. I've done it back to back with Diggles many times. I haven't fought 5+ with non-shielders and come out on top, but I've done 2v4's with Sosarian and come out with both of us not taking a single hit so I'm sure it is possible. You are EXTREMELY dependent on your teammates.

Now, that was all about team fights. You WILL NOT be a duelist. If you begin dueling someone, you WILL lose. When fighting most people, I rely on a maximum of three free hits I can get off out of trickery. If they are still alive after ~3 hits, you NEED to put the shield on your back. They won't fall to your jump stab or spin stab antics after that unless they are as smart as a broken lamppost. For general situations, I HIGHLY recommend the light lance. It is the perfect mixture of length, speed, and damage for a hoplites weapon. However, there are a few specialized hoplite spears.

Light Lance: Again, the general jack of all trades. Have this as your default.

• Length: 4/5
• Damage: 3/5
• Speed: 3/5

Ashwood Pike: Close quarters support, maximize damage at the cost of some length.

• Length:3/5
• Damage:4/5
• Speed:3/5

War Spear: When you simply can't find a teammate to stick with and keep running into duelists.

• Length:2/5
• Damage:3/5
• Speed: 5/5

Lance: When you know your shield will not break and you will be playing mainly support. Do not duel with it, it is too slow. You get a little extra length over the light lance with the same damage as the ashwood.

• Length:4/5
• Damage:4/5
• Speed:1/5

Battle Fork: The ultimate close quarters spear. Will not rear horses, will not support anyone. WILL kill people if you hit.

• Length:1/5
• Damage:5/5
• Speed:3/5

Pitch Fork / Fauchard: Cost effective horse killers. Nothing more. Infantry laugh at your attempts to hurt them and you are not a dependable support to your teammates.

• Length:2/5 & 4/5
• Damage:1/5
• Speed:3/5

Iron Staff: Only listing this to prevent Xeen from yelling at me for not mentioning. Has Knockdown, does ok damage. No length. I recommended against usage.

• Length:1/5
• Damage:3/5
• Speed:5/5

Bamboo Spear: Ultimate support weapon. Does ok damage at ok speed. Godlike length. Do not duel with it without putting the shield on your back, way too long.

• Length:5/5
• Damage:2/5
• Speed:3/5

Double-Sided Lance: For Oohilac, high damage and a good speed. Extremely short. Do not use to support teammates, pretend its a shorter cooler looking battle fork and go to town.

• Length:1/5
• Damage:5/5
• Speed:4/5

Edit: Just want to add a note on the dueling part. There are more broken lampposts out there than I thought when posting this...
Edit for Credibility level: at 10 gens so far.

[fdaslan]

Quite outdated

[Macropus]

Very nice information, as well as the whole guide, thank you) This guide is one of the reasons why I became hoplite.
I also want to note some about my experience with build I used for 1 gen, which might be useful for somebody.
I played as 27 12 hoplite, its just a bit different from your Hypaspist build. I think its really good, because sacrifising 1 PS you become able to use almost any shield, which means it wouldn't be a problem to find another shield on battlefield if yours is broken.

I used War Spear, which in my opinion has following pros and cons:
Pros:
1) Low range. You CAN duel as hoplite. Even with shield and being a noob like me you can have 1/1 kd on EU 3. (Note that you will never kill professional and patiens players who won't just try to spam you but will concentrate on downblock or total chambering your thrusts).
I can say for sure that people underrate hoplites as duellers, sometimes they consider you as easy prey and that might be their fatal mistake. Some people believe in their holy right to attack you back after your blow and don't expect you to continue your attacks, which allows you to (I know it sounds weird) SPAM with your thrust, sometimes making up to 3(!) strikes in a row which almost always would mean dead enemy.
2) Side swings. When in battle you meet an enemy 1-1 its very good to put your shield on your back and land few unexpected side blows. Or when your shield is broken in battle and enemies think you became weaker... - you actually became stronger.

Cons:
1) Low range. Not too low, actually. With some timing and footwork it is still pretty good for horserearing and or even killing a rider (if he rides by and you manage to hit his leg). But such range makes you a bit less effective as support, cause you also have low athletics, and less effective in clusterfuck (if I understood right what this word means), because you can be outreached by other hoplites and greatswords.

... I thought it will be other cons but I cant think of any more disadvantages of this weapon.

PS: and yes, being a hoplite is really funny. I dunno why, but thrusting people is AWESOME 

[fdaslan]

Bump.

If you are a guy who loves to be in action often, I found Heater Shield to better than Board Shield. It has more HP so it won't break easily. And for the second weapon, I recommend an axe. Even the cheapest axe is OK against shielders.

Now I hava a question. What shall I loom first? Shield or pike?



Edit: Round -> Board

[Joseph Porta]

I'd say shield because of it's overall use..

[owens]

I dont hoplite in cRPG but I recommend spending some time in the duel server and learning your own speed and your enemies reach. Can you dodge the over head and make the spin stab when they are unguarded?

I play hoplite in Native (weapon reach isnt different) and find that warspear is a good length to counter cav any shorter than ~150 it gets dangerous quickly.



Also the quarter staff doesnt get a mention wth? good reach, blunt damage, knockdown and mad speed. It has a very low str requirement which gives you the option of massive athletics WM and of course shield skill.


I created one hoplite(more like Roman legionaire) build actually 7PT 7PS 4shield 4WM 4ath was interesting using a short sword to stab and throwing lances to hoplite with and throw. I used a board shield. It was an experience for me as I only ever play polearm or 2H it amazed me how much damage could actually be done with small weapons and the throwing lances (I carried 2) made heavy 2H a non issue.

[vh0x]

Do you need to convert skill points for the first build? The more AGI then STR build?

[fdaslan]

Do you need to convert skill points for the first build? The more AGI then STR build?

Yes, you have to convert 2 skill points to 1 attribute point.

[Freland]

This is a great guide - thumbs up!

[Ronin]

Gee thanks. I wasn't playing cRPG for a long time, I even had to read my own guide to re-learn all the stuff. But it's nice to see after months, my guide is still at the top

By the way, I've seen many hoplites around lately. My old crpg pal said, the reason for this was overpopulated cavalry and archers in servers. Nevertheless, it is good to see people discovered this technique. I still think my guide lacks some balanced builds. I might update the guide a bit, but first I have to play to see what is changed.

Thanks for all of the suggestions, I am anxious to try all of them.

Edit: By the way, some tip I can share: with 7 shield skill and a steel shield, your shield will take no damage from arrows, bolts. You can stay as long as you like against archers, especially useful in DTV; for protecting your teammates from enemy archers. Not even tincans can do any damage with their longbows. Don't count on your shield against heavy shield breakers like bardiche though.

[wanderinghobo77]

Great and fun build, i was inspired to do a hoplite in crpg after i did one in dark souls and found this guide to be absolutely helpful

[Ronin]

Updated the guide a bit. Added a new build and the gameplay video by teeth. Here are the add-on parts:

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Spartan
The Champion of Ares

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+Really well hitting while not sacrificing a lot manueverability.
+Good at carrying the battle on to the enemy, which means less defense is needed.
+Good at compensating a weakness of hoplite, early before it can happen.

This is a teeth inspired build. I just decided to try after seeing teeth's lvl 34 build for 21/21. I tried to create a lvl 30 version of it. To compensate the loss of agi, I tried to wear a bit lighter armor. Everything worked correctly with a sarranid guard armor. Although I tried to adapt his build, I believe the credit must go to teeth.

This is the best offensive I have seen so far. It lets you to take hits, and defend yourself decently enough. Also offers you enough manueverability to wander around the battlefield. But the best thing is, good power strike combined with a good amount of athletics; it lets you fly like a butterfly and sting like a bee. Which can be an even better thing for a hoplite than it might sound. First of all, one of the biggest weaknesses of a hoplite is having bad team who gets eliminated completely. Whereas hoplite truly shines when the enemy is outnumbered. An offensive build such as this, has to potential to turn the tides quickly in a battle. Therefore preventing your team to get outnumbered, by making the enemy outnumbered. Don't forget. There are very good players playing this mod mostly, but there are also bad players; in both of the teams! As quickly as you can turn the tides, better the situation will be. Good for siege and even better for battle. I also linked to a gameplay video by teeth below.

Note: Of course there are should be many viable builds. I just posted some diverse ones that I had also most success with. So feel free to do adaptations to these builds, or create your own build.

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Gameplay video by Teeth
This video I think shows how powerful and effective a hoplite can be. Especially against players underestimating you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=la1VK_w6CKU

[Lotrix]

What spear does Teeth using in his vid?

[Bifi]

Ashwood Pike