Author Topic: Make char strength increase one-handed weapons swing-speed  (Read 961 times)

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Offline Michael

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Make char strength increase one-handed weapons swing-speed
« on: June 23, 2012, 04:17:55 pm »
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Make char strength increase one-handed weapons swing-speed

Reason One: Realism

If chadz' 'realism is not an argument' rule is still alive - I am afraid I am not up to date to crpg concerns - then

Reason Two: I want it that way. Its insane that a flamburger with 1 wpf in two-handed played by a guy with crap computer, horrible internet connection and maybe slightly above average combat skill can technically outspam a one-hander.
And polearms, they are worse. Their swing-and-stab-speed is literally insane.
 
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Offline San

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Re: Make char strength increase one-handed weapons swing-speed
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2012, 04:21:01 pm »
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Why not agility instead? And wpf is already used to increase swing speed, it's just not too effective to get high amounts.

It'll be similar to agility increasing run speed/acceleration.

Offline Joker86

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Re: Make char strength increase one-handed weapons swing-speed
« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2012, 04:23:52 pm »
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Why should one raise AGI then?
Joker makes a very good point.
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Offline Teeth

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Re: Make char strength increase one-handed weapons swing-speed
« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2012, 05:53:08 pm »
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Although this entire suggestion is retarded, much more so the OP's arguments for it, it has always bothered me that more powerful characters swing slower.

Realistically the force of a swing gets translated into speed. So if you want to hit hard you need to get a fast swing going. It looks really ridiculous to see a slow ass swing, do a shitload of damage like it does ingame. Ofcourse higher damage meaning higher swingspeed does in no way fit in our current system, but its just something peculiar.

Offline Leshma

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Re: Make char strength increase one-handed weapons swing-speed
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2012, 06:25:32 pm »
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If this ever goes through, I'm so making 42/3 swashbucker :D

Offline Shadowren

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Re: Make char strength increase one-handed weapons swing-speed
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2012, 06:47:24 pm »
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You just need more WPF or more loomed items  :mrgreen:
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Away with you, vile beggar.

Offline Michael

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Re: Make char strength increase one-handed weapons swing-speed
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2012, 06:52:51 pm »
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Why not agility instead?


If we were real warriors you would not have to ask, you would know from experience.
Here is your homework:

Step 1: Get a very light weapon. A knife, for example. Swing it with one hand, then swing it with two hands. One-handed mode will be faster, for many reasons. The most important are:
1) It is easier to coordinate one hand than to coordinate two hands
2) Not both hands are equally skilled. One can do better than the other. Using two hands means that your maximum speed (without suffering from coordination problems, see above) will be dominated by your slower hand.

Step 2: Continue the experiment by taking heavier weapons.
Sooner or later, probably sooner, you will get to the point when you find that using two hands makes it easier to handle your weapon. With two hands, the weapon will be faster.
Reason is that the weapon you are using is too heavy for your strength.

Step 3: Get some muscles. Then get back to the weapon. You will be able to swing it faster. When you have increased your strength high enough, you will - again - be able to use it with one hand faster than with two hands. (Of course this only works till the final level of fitness a human can reach - so dont tell me 'Damn, I am training in the gym 6 hours a day but I am not able to swing my 30-pounds-hammer with one hand faster than with two hands'.

I am talking about one handed weapons.

In-game, it could work similiar to the influence of shield skill on its speed (and damage).

Example:
y = factor (in this example y = 1, counter all 3 attribute points like its for all the skills)
Weapon X's requirement is 12 and its base speed 98.

Char A has 9 strength. He is so weak, he cant even use that weapon.

Char B has 12 strength. He can use the weapon, but he is so weak, so he barely can handle the weapon properly. Speed penalty for him. Speed for him (base speed 98 - y (in this example 1, see above)) 97 

Char C has 15 strength. He is strong enough to use the weapon okay. No speed penalty for him, no bonus, weapon speed = base speed = 98

Char D has 24 strength. He is strong enough to handle this weapon without any problems, more than that, in his strong arm, the weapon feels as light as a pencil.
Weapon speed for him: base speed + 3y = 101
 
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Offline Joker86

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Re: Make char strength increase one-handed weapons swing-speed
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2012, 07:01:51 pm »
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Make char strength increase one-handed weapons swing-speed

Reason One: Realism

If chadz' 'realism is not an argument' rule is still alive - I am afraid I am not up to date to crpg concerns - then

It still is. Gameplay/balance > realism. Although they are striving for maximum amount of realism possible leately.

Reason Two: I want it that way. Its insane that a flamburger with 1 wpf in two-handed played by a guy with crap computer, horrible internet connection and maybe slightly above average combat skill can technically outspam a one-hander.
And polearms, they are worse. Their swing-and-stab-speed is literally insane.

Then the logical consquence to change it would be to either increase weapon speed of 1hd weapons or lower weapon speed of flamberge.


Just one question: did you even think one second about the fact that the two attributes need to be of about the same importance for a character, to grant a high diversity of builds and to make the builds all of about the same strength on the same level?

Really, you can't mess up the entire character attribute and skill system just to balance two weapons with each other...  :?
Joker makes a very good point.
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Offline bruce

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Re: Make char strength increase one-handed weapons swing-speed
« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2012, 07:32:16 pm »
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If this ever goes through, I'm so making 42/3 swashbucker :D

You and 50 other people.
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Offline Michael

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Re: Make char strength increase one-handed weapons swing-speed
« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2012, 09:14:20 pm »
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Why should one raise AGI then?

Athletics will always be the most important skill for battle.
Without athletics, how do you dodge arrows/ couched lances?
How do you avoid getting surrounded and back-stabbed?
How do you catch archers/ back-pedaling two-handers/ polespammers?
Even with 4, 5 athletics battle can be somewhat frustrating.
Good luck with 1.
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Offline Joker86

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Re: Make char strength increase one-handed weapons swing-speed
« Reply #10 on: June 23, 2012, 09:56:29 pm »
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Currently STR is already slightly preferred as skill on the server, which doesn't really support your theory.

If anything, AGI needs a buff.

Don't tweak on ancient gaming mechanics like having to choose between power and speed.
Joker makes a very good point.
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