Poll

Nerf Fagchers ?

Sure
59 (19.9%)
Must
25 (8.4%)
Need
17 (5.7%)
YES PLEASE NERF IT , I'M my old friend BUT WE ARE OP !
29 (9.8%)
kebab
51 (17.2%)
No
116 (39.1%)

Total Members Voted: 295

Author Topic: Nerf Archery  (Read 28017 times)

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Offline Smoothrich

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Re: Nerf Archery
« Reply #285 on: October 05, 2012, 12:35:00 am »
+3
pretty sure one of the problems is due to "all of the changes in the past few months" most of the good melee players have completely left cRPG to play other games, leaving behind nothing but gen 20 rus bow nerds with full looms, along with similar low skill high gen cav players. 

this creates a very imbalanced dynamic off the bat where overwhelming amounts of rus bow bodkin arrows and heavy lance couches can win against any other team composition every time auto balance stacks a team, which subtly leads to more melee players quitting the mod.

but it's okay, another half dozen veteran warband players abandoning the mod after another team of 7 rus bow users kite them to death isn't so bad.  until the next half dozen.  and the next.  etc.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2012, 08:28:16 am by Smoothrich »
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Offline Piok

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Re: Nerf Archery
« Reply #286 on: October 05, 2012, 07:51:52 am »
-1
Soon even ranged will be leaving due thinner numbers of targets :mrgreen:

Offline Tzar

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Re: Nerf Archery
« Reply #287 on: October 05, 2012, 02:34:38 pm »
-1
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I've never played a server where people split up as much or as often as on EU1.  No wonder range is having a field day.

Offline Arrowblood

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Re: Nerf Archery
« Reply #288 on: October 05, 2012, 04:03:31 pm »
+1
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Offline Kafein

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Re: Nerf Archery
« Reply #289 on: October 06, 2012, 01:54:07 pm »
-2
Did I miss anything? Archers are the ultra class now that dominate everyone  - even shielders with "antishielder bugusing"? I remember them as squishy bottom feeders that were more an annoyance than a threat to my shieldless melee chars. They didn't even waste any energy to target my shielders. Raped by cav and other ranged alike, their low armor making them a "one mistake and you are out" class. But they are probably OP now, with all the changes over the past months.

What I refer to when I say "antishielder bugusing" is what robinhood, blackbow etc. always try to do whenever a shielder is about 50cm away from them. Draw the bow, strafe in one direction, wait until the shielder starts turning, immediately strafe in the other direction and release the shot "around" the shield. Negating any kind of law of physics since at this point. The models of the bow and arrow are already plunged into the model of the enemy but yeah you can totally release a shot with full power.


I don't think anybody has said archers dominate everyone. They just have the best survivability if we forget about mounted ranged for a moment. Cav is a mere annoyance for archers as all the maps have at least a few vantage points where they can't hurt you whatsoever. And even when there aren't, just stand in an sufficiently big open field and no cav will ever sneak on you. This is easy for anyone playing an archer. The killing power comes through skill and looms.

Archers are fine in objective-based gamemodes, because you are not forced to kill them. They are fine when there are other enemies around, since those will probably be easier targets. However, when they are the last enemies left, archers can become an horrible opponent for any class but other archers. Running from inf and dodging cav 24/7 doesn't depend on looms or even on skill, besides knowing what are the control keys.


Even though it's an obvious sarcasm, "all the changes in the past months" had the effect of making melee very weak. And by this I mean the changes that happened through patches and naturally. People become skilled in melee as they play, and now as a result a duel between two half-decent players can go on for minutes. You got a ranged weapon ? Shoot twice, fight ends. This hasn't changed in years. I'm a 1h/throwing hybrid now and whenever I see someone and think "this is going to be a tought fight", I grab my spears and with a little bit of luck, there's no fight left. There's no such thing as "dodging skill" with projectiles like arrows and bolts, just luck. They go way too fast.

Offline Lichen

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Re: Nerf Archery
« Reply #290 on: October 06, 2012, 07:14:19 pm »
-2
some ideas

-make it so you can't walk or rotate more than 90 degrees with a bow drawn
-implement bow sway
-increase head armor of higher end helms to compensate for head damage bonus but still have it possible for severe damage if wearing no or a weak helm
-if possible add new super critical 1 penetrating arrow hit kill area (new hitbox) such as heart
-add new cut arrow tier above tatar arrows (maybe 7 cut damage)
-make all armors mail and above more resistant to cut arrows while anyone wearing less will be MORE vulnerable than currently.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2012, 08:30:23 pm by Lichen »

Offline Boss_Awesome

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Re: Nerf Archery
« Reply #291 on: October 09, 2012, 07:29:22 pm »
+2
pretty sure one of the problems is due to "all of the changes in the past few months" most of the good melee players have completely left cRPG to play other games, leaving behind nothing but gen 20 rus bow nerds with full looms, along with similar low skill high gen cav players. 

this creates a very imbalanced dynamic off the bat where overwhelming amounts of rus bow bodkin arrows and heavy lance couches can win against any other team composition every time auto balance stacks a team, which subtly leads to more melee players quitting the mod.

but it's okay, another half dozen veteran warband players abandoning the mod after another team of 7 rus bow users kite them to death isn't so bad.  until the next half dozen.  and the next.  etc.

I've been involved in coordinated archer squads for two years now and the mod isn't dead yet... 

Offline Templar_Ratigan

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Re: Nerf Archery
« Reply #292 on: October 09, 2012, 08:02:58 pm »
0
I don't think anybody has said archers dominate everyone. They just have the best survivability if we forget about mounted ranged for a moment.

Good point....in fact let us forget about heirloomed, armoured and high level anything, clearly a peasant with a stick is the most survivable.

Nerf peasants with sticks!

Crpg; where logic climbs off the horse. "Arent you coming with me?" "Nah mate, sorry I have to....be somewhere....besides im not welcome here".

Actually im being a little unfair, Kafekin.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2012, 08:09:52 pm by Templar_Ratigan »
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Offline Thomek

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Re: Nerf Archery
« Reply #293 on: October 10, 2012, 01:22:00 pm »
0
Jeez.. Archers are not OP these days.. (Can't believe I say this)
They could need some diversification though, as there is mainly one build - one bow, that stands out as the best.

But that goes for most of cRPG..
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Offline Tzar

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Re: Nerf Archery
« Reply #294 on: October 10, 2012, 03:47:08 pm »
+2
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I've never played a server where people split up as much or as often as on EU1.  No wonder range is having a field day.

Offline Kafein

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Re: Nerf Archery
« Reply #295 on: October 10, 2012, 06:57:37 pm »
-1
Good point....in fact let us forget about heirloomed, armoured and high level anything, clearly a peasant with a stick is the most survivable.

Nerf peasants with sticks!

Crpg; where logic climbs off the horse. "Arent you coming with me?" "Nah mate, sorry I have to....be somewhere....besides im not welcome here".

Actually im being a little unfair, Kafekin.

Mounted ranged isn't just any class. It's basically bigger, weaker archers with better speed. What I said wouldn't hold true with any other class. And even with that one, in many cases the size of HA/HX make them huge squishy targets.

Offline Spa_geh_tea

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Re: Nerf Archery
« Reply #296 on: October 10, 2012, 07:15:02 pm »
0
Internsting thought. Not sure if its feasible.

Increase the sensativity of speed bonus damage for ha. So, if they are running away and Target is moving away.....practically no damage. But if they are riding straight at Target and Target is moving towards them.....tons of damage. Ya know, like how real horse archery works.

I'm guessing this can be achieved through a combo of speed bonus and ha skill.


Essentialy turn the ha into the dive bomber of the medieval age
« Last Edit: October 10, 2012, 07:18:30 pm by Spa_geh_tea »

Offline Uumdi

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Re: Nerf Archery
« Reply #297 on: October 10, 2012, 07:33:11 pm »
+2
Bring back native archery.


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Offline Boss_Awesome

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Re: Nerf Archery
« Reply #298 on: October 10, 2012, 09:49:04 pm »
+3
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If they brought back native archery then people would realize how nerfed archery is in c-rpg, and would probably be okay with it's current implentation.  (If you are too cold, go stand outside and come back in.  Now you feel quite warm!!!)


Offline Joker86

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Re: Nerf Archery
« Reply #299 on: October 10, 2012, 10:06:33 pm »
+6
Archery is not OP at all. There are just too many of them, which can create the wrong impression. Find solutions to lower the number of archers, instead of nerfing them. We had enough nerfs in this game.
Joker makes a very good point.
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