katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail

[Memento_Mori]

Please don't get rid of katana stab !

At one point I was glad to see the pole arm stab on nodachi gone, but now I misses it.

The low stab damage (near suicide to attempt) on the katana (and once on the nodachi) make it unique.

It also makes it so you can't just left click furiously or you may end up stabbing when you don't want to which is a good way to glance and die, and I like this.

anyway that's my weeabo 2 cents.

.. derp didn't notice this in realism discussion now I feel kinda silly oh well.

[Ujio]

No one takes the Realism discussion board seriously, you should get this posted in Game balance discussion

[Teeth]

They should've buffed the stab to like 18p-20p instead of buffing the cut damage. The katana is quite strong now, but the stab damage still makes no sense compared to the stab damage of other items.

[zagibu]

Yeah, I'm with Teeth here, although I don't like the Katana at all, 16p is really a bad joke. I think 19 would be okay.

[Leshma]

I dun liek my old friendtana.

[Son Of Odin]

Easiest thing would be to just remove that sheit. Then we wouldn't have to argue about the damn thing

[Shrugging Khan]

it really is true to an extent but there are always limiting factors in computer games.

True; but it's usually better to introduce the necessary mechanics (even if they're just barely functional placeholders), or, if coding new mechanics is not possible, to balance items via the more abstract stats (in M&B's case, those are Difficulty, Price, Slots, Sheathable, Knockdown and Breakthrough (the latter two because they are probability-based)) rather than the ones that will actually *feel* wrong (like damage, speed, length or weight).

In the case of fauchard VS Katana, there is no excuse. The fauchard would deal more cutting or blunt damage (depending on whether the outer edge is sharpened) than that tiny spike would ever deal piercing. IMHO, the fauchard should have its thrust attack severly downgraded along with its price (since, IIRC, historic fauchards were repurposed farming tools -> economical).

[Ujio]

I think a good way to look at it, is in comparison to the Bastard sword. Both swords aren't so different in terms of weight and length.

So if we were to give the Katana the same stats as the Bastard sword (35 cut, 21 pierce)
And then apply rule such as, the "Katana is a curved weapon, so it should have +2 cut" 37 cut
And the "Bastard sword is a straight weapon, so it should have + 2 pierce" 21 pierce

Then the Katana would have 37 cut 19 pierce
Bastard sword 35 cut 21 pierce

But right now it's +5 pierce to the Bastard sword.

I think 19 pierce for the Katana would be about right

[Penitent]

I think a good way to look at it, is in comparison to the Bastard sword. Both swords aren't so different in terms of weight and length.

So if we were to give the Katana the same stats as the Bastard sword (35 cut, 21 pierce)
And then apply rule such as, the "Katana is a curved weapon, so it should have +2 cut" 37 cut
And the "Bastard sword is a straight weapon, so it should have + 2 pierce" 21 pierce

Then the Katana would have 37 cut 19 pierce
Bastard sword 35 cut 21 pierce

But right now it's +5 pierce to the Bastard sword.

I think 19 pierce for the Katana would be about right

This is a fair way of looking at it.  However, you should consider that cut damage is more useful than pierce (on a sword).  You will cut twice or three times as often as you will thrust.  The cut damage will be applied more often than the thrust...so it is more potent for this reason.

Take in to consideration two top-tier 1h weapons.  The KAS and the NCS.  The KAS has 31 cut, 24 pierce.  NCS is 32 cut 21 pierce.  The KAS has 1 less cut, but 3 more pierce.  These weapons have the same length and speed, are considered balanced, cost the same amount, and it can be argued all night and day which one is better...because they are the same.

I'm trying to say +1 cut is worth +2 or +3 pierce on swords, because cut is used more often so you get the benefit of that stat more often.

[Rumblood]

When the pierce damage is so low as to cause a much greater chance of glancing then it isn't a fair trade.

[Zisa]

I prefer the old weaker cut faster katana.
And the old weaker but thrustable nodachi, which is now for lazy fucks who don't want to use a cleaver.

Actually wouldn't mind a ninja sword

[Ujio]

This is a fair way of looking at it.  However, you should consider that cut damage is more useful than pierce (on a sword).  You will cut twice or three times as often as you will thrust.  The cut damage will be applied more often than the thrust...so it is more potent for this reason.

Take in to consideration two top-tier 1h weapons.  The KAS and the NCS.  The KAS has 31 cut, 24 pierce.  NCS is 32 cut 21 pierce.  The KAS has 1 less cut, but 3 more pierce.  These weapons have the same length and speed, are considered balanced, cost the same amount, and it can be argued all night and day which one is better...because they are the same.

I'm trying to say +1 cut is worth +2 or +3 pierce on swords, because cut is used more often so you get the benefit of that stat more often.

But doesn't Pierce do more damage vs armor?

Also Rumblewood makes a good point about the glancing

[Shrugging Khan]

So piercing buffs are worth more the lower the initial piercing stat is. I'm fairly sure the devs have a formula to handle these things.

[Thomek]

Aye

19 pierce, thank you! wouldn't really make it OP. Just increase the price.. It's an exotic weapon after all.

[Ujio]

Not this "exotic weapon" nonsense again, it's a crap argument, to coverup a bias towards certain gear.

Lets stop kidding ourselves on. C-rpg is a blatantly multicultural mod, a far cry from a pure European era mod.
There's plenty of gear from other cultures, not of European origin, and they don't receive these penalties, So why should Japanese gear be any different?

How about just treating it like any other equipment in the mod, Instead of this prejudice towards Far-eastern equipment. Would be nice to have some equality in C-rpg