Archer kiting

[_Sebastian_]

Not sure if it's possible to code this but here goes:

When an archer is holding a bow, his athletics are reduced to a third (kind of like in rageball with the ball carrier).
When an archer is holding his melee weapon or has his bow sheathed, his athletics are normal.
When an archer switches from bow to melee or sheaths his bow, his athletics are still reduced to a third for 3 seconds (could be lower or higher).
When he is switching back to his bow he already goes back to a third of his athletics.

It is.
And no athletics reduction is needed.

This is what I did in my mod.
Many things are not needed for crpg, but it is a good exampe how to code it;

Code: [Select]

#limit moving speed
moving_speed_limiter = (
  0.5, 0, 0,
  [
    (this_or_next|multiplayer_is_server),
    (neg|game_in_multiplayer_mode),
   
    (try_for_agents, ":agent"),
      (gt, ":agent", -1),
      (agent_is_alive, ":agent"),
      (agent_is_human, ":agent"),
      (agent_get_horse, ":horse", ":agent"),
      (le, ":horse", 0),
      (assign, ":speed", 100),
      (agent_get_wielded_item, ":weapon", ":agent", 0),
   
      (try_begin),
        (gt, ":weapon", 0),
        (item_get_type, ":weapon_type", ":weapon"),
        (agent_get_attack_action, ":attack_action", ":agent"),

        (try_begin),#Player
          (neg|agent_is_non_player, ":agent"),
          (try_begin),
            (eq, ":weapon_type", itp_type_bow),
            (try_begin),
              (this_or_next|eq, ":attack_action", 1),#readying_attack
              (eq, ":attack_action", 2),#releasing_attack
              (assign, ":speed", 60),
            (try_end),
          (else_try),
            (this_or_next|eq, ":weapon_type", itp_type_crossbow),
            (eq, ":weapon_type", itp_type_musket),
            (try_begin),
              (this_or_next|eq, ":attack_action", 1),#readying_attack
              (eq, ":attack_action", 2),#releasing_attack
              (assign, ":speed", 70),
            (else_try),
              (eq, ":attack_action", 5),#reloading
              (assign, ":speed", 40),
            (try_end),
          (else_try),
            (eq, ":weapon_type", itp_type_pistol),
            (try_begin),
              (this_or_next|eq, ":attack_action", 1),#readying_attack
              (eq, ":attack_action", 2),#releasing_attack
              (assign, ":speed", 90),
            (else_try),
              (eq, ":attack_action", 5),#reloading
              (assign, ":speed", 60),
            (try_end),
          (try_end),
       
        (else_try),#Bot
          (this_or_next|eq, ":weapon_type", itp_type_bow),
          (this_or_next|eq, ":weapon_type", itp_type_crossbow),
          (this_or_next|eq, ":weapon_type", itp_type_musket),
          (this_or_next|eq, ":weapon_type", itp_type_pistol),
          (eq, ":weapon_type", itp_type_thrown),
          (try_begin),
            (this_or_next|eq, ":attack_action", 1),#readying_attack
            (this_or_next|eq, ":attack_action", 2),#releasing_attack
            (eq, ":attack_action", 5),#reloading
            (assign, ":speed", 0),
          (try_end),
        (try_end),
      (try_end),
      (agent_slot_eq, ":agent", slot_agent_walk, 0),
      (agent_slot_eq, ":agent", slot_agent_sprint_time, 0),
      (agent_set_speed_modifier, ":agent", ":speed"),
    (try_end),
  ], [])


[Miwiw]

(click to show/hide)

Alternatively, disable archers from reaching sprint speed (the sudden speed up you normally do after 3 seconds of purely running forward) This will still allow ye old shoot & sidestep and minor repositioning, but they can't outspeed infantry when they are carrying their bow. So if they want to run, they have to switch to their melee weapon, which in turn disables them to run and shoot and might actually motivate people to get melee proficiency and become a proper battle archer.

Apart from that I think the archer wpf system should be reworked so an archer can wear some decent armor and be somewhat decent in melee, while retaining their current archer strength. I am fine with archers as long as they stand and fight. Force archers to become light/medium bow armed soldiers, instead of the peasants with bows they are now.

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Thats an archer.

You Ser,
make a good point here.
I would love this but the wpf penalty kinda makes it impossible. I notice every weight that my accuracy drops (and a helment counts 3x therefore I don't wear one).
However I also went 18/18 this gen with 6 WM only and also PS/IF. That means I usually do not kite as I cannot outrun most people. Usually it is just 3 - 4 Shots if I am engaged and take some steps back. It is also kinda impossible for me as I use the 2-slots Rus Bow and a MW Miltary Cleaver. Therefore I only have 1 Stack of Bodkin Arrows (at least +1 therefore 17 Arrows, not enough for one round but I usually pick up other arrows).
Never liked kiting anyway, but I do not like the suggestion to heavily prevent archers from being able to play. Let them run if possible, most of those high athletics archers do not have enough PD to deal enough damage anyway. Some teamplay is required from all teams.

edit:
Not saying the archer system shouldn't be changed though.

[CrazyCracka420]

Don't get kited.  Usually those 5 people chasing one archer would be better off fighting with their main group.  Kiting is a valid tactic IMO.

People chasing a kiter annoys me the same as our cavalry getting engaged with enemy cavalry on the opposite side of the battlefield.  I would like to tell those people "BE USEFUL!"

[Teeth]

You Ser,
make a good point here.
I would love this but the wpf penalty kinda makes it impossible.

I know its impossible thats why I think the wpf system should be reworked.

[Gravoth_iii]

Correct shield coverage would make shields useless against ranged since it is so easy to aim.

[Vibe]

Correct shield coverage would make shields useless against ranged since it is so easy to aim.

I would be up for correct shield coverage for smaller shields like the buckler. Those tiny pieces of steel that are drawing arrows from all over the place look ridiculous.

[FRANK_THE_TANK]

Hate to say it Vibe but this is a terrible idea.

Archers give up a lot to be able to run like fuck. They have to drop a great deal into ATH and wear no Armour at all. We shouldn't be punishing agi builds any more than they already are.

I have 8ath and wear fuck all Armour and I can chase down everyone including Aderyn. I just have to find a way to bridge the distance then come flying out of a bush swing my dagger like a loon. If some one with good ping did this you would see some very angry archers and throwers.

[Kafein]

Correct shield coverage would make shields useless against ranged since it is so easy to aim.

By "correct shield coverage" I really meant that shields shouldn't be ghostly pieces of 4th dimensional wood/steel on the sides that let arrows through but not polearms.

Also, the whole shield should act as passive ranged defense (you are doing another animation and your shield catches an arrow) as they did before the forcefield nerf, and not just a tiny part at the center.


Also, such a change would be a very good excuse to nerf the bucklers, because hell they are the only ones where being forced to actively move your camera to block makes sense, and yet they currently cover nearly as much as a huscarl shield because they are round.

[Siberian_Wolf]

Alternatively, disable archers from reaching sprint speed (the sudden speed up you normally do after 3 seconds of purely running forward) This will still allow ye old shoot & sidestep and minor repositioning, but they can't outspeed infantry when they are carrying their bow. So if they want to run, they have to switch to their melee weapon, which in turn disables them to run and shoot and might actually motivate people to get melee proficiency and become a proper battle archer.

Apart from that I think the archer wpf system should be reworked so an archer can wear some decent armor and be somewhat decent in melee, while retaining their current archer strength. I am fine with archers as long as they stand and fight. Force archers to become light/medium bow armed soldiers, instead of the peasants with bows they are now.

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Thats an archer.

Its funny... When archers werent forced into pure archery because of PD - wpf requirements and slot system people cried about how they shouldnt be decent in melee. Now they they dont do melee you cry for them too. Make up your mind.

Btw.

   Melee cry about everything.
   There are little to no threads where archers cry.

Lol.

[Kafein]

Its funny... When archers werent forced into pure archery because of PD - wpf requirements and slot system people cried about how they shouldnt be decent in melee. Now they they dont do melee you cry for them too. Make up your mind.

Btw.

   Melee cry about everything.
   There are little to no threads where archers cry.

Lol.

Given that it is reasonable to think on average the people that play melee and archer characters are the same, what you say is actually a compelling argument that screams something is wrong with the game. If everything was right everybody would be whining equally.

[San]

I sure would enjoy being an infantry shielder more if some of these suggestions are implemented.

The problem with not chasing a kiting archer is that you have to then be preoccupied with them for an extended amount of time afterwards, since they will likely start to target you. Kiting melee helps my team group up on the ones left behind. Kiting archers just isolate the chasers and make them useless to the team instead.


I do think a buff to archer melee capabilities should be included, though. Not nearly as good as a melee build, but better than what we have now would be nice.

[Kafein]

A buff to the archer melee capabilities is what could solve the problem together with a nerf of dedicated archery (so that an archer hybrid is better than now, but a peasant firing a bazooka is not)