Poll

Buff Kutana stab

make same as long sword
18 (20.7%)
make same as awlpike
2 (2.3%)
make same as +3 awelpike
4 (4.6%)
make insta kill
63 (72.4%)

Total Members Voted: 87

Author Topic: Long Sword vs another sword  (Read 7406 times)

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Offline Arn_Magnusson

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Re: Long Sword vs another sword
« Reply #15 on: May 20, 2012, 10:51:22 pm »
0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDkoj932YFo

I think the Katana needs a buff. It's stab is ridiculous and it's too slow. As shown by this scientific study into how boss the Katana is and how not boss the long sword is we can clearly see Katana needs a buff.

I say it should have

105 speed

40 cut
40 thrust

This seems fair and historically accurate, the best kind of accurate.

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Offline zagibu

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Re: Long Sword vs another sword
« Reply #16 on: May 21, 2012, 02:15:14 am »
0
If hiltslash was out of the game, noone would ever whine about katana anymore.
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 Why am I beswung by sharpe and pointed utensyls?

Offline Shatter

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Re: Long Sword vs another sword
« Reply #17 on: May 21, 2012, 03:50:33 am »
0
Now lets consider ninja, the shinobi: There ARE in crpg MANY ninja weapons. Some of them are: bamboo spear, military sickle, shortened military scythe, studded warclub (bit chinese but its ok), staffs, stones, scythe. Lets keep in mind who ninjas where, and what they did:

1/ Spies. Ninja were peasants by birth, and were hired to listen in to pub conversations, peasant meetings, and blend in.

2/ Terrorists/Unresters: Hired to weaken an enemy population's trust in their fuedal lord, they would destroy cooperative crop storages, and incite unrest among peasants, requiring the samurai to expend time and energy quelling them.

3/ Sabotage: ninja trained hard to be able to infiltrate castles and set them on fire, to shorten sieges.

4/ Mercenaries: they were used alongside peasant militias as skirmishers and low value infantry, usually as fodder for enemy cavalry charges, allowing the main forces (consisting of cavalry) to charge into enemy forces from the side, taking the glory.


ASSASINATION: Samurai's pubicly held to their code of honour and ethics, much as medieval knights were pubicly bound to the code of chivalry. Since we KNOW that these codes were stuck to only as long as it was productive, we can safely assume that assasins where samurai, since their combat prowess would far outstrip that of a ninja, who is, essentially, a very sneaky peasant.

Since we established that samurai did not use katana, and that carrying a katana as a ninja would have made them pretty fucking useless as an infiltrator, they would not have carried one either.

The use of pyjama's in blacks, dark reds and blues, by ninja is a hollywood carryon, developted from the japanese operatic mechanic of having a stagehand (who wore dark colours so the audience knew to ignore their presence onstage) murder a main character of the opera, leading everyone to understand he was murdered by stealth.

So now we have established that:

1/ Neither samurai nor ninja used katana

2/ Ninja did NOT wear dark colours, in nicely colourordenated suits,

WHY o WHY do you wear that silly gear and use katana yet call yourself ninja? Just grab a Kuyak and a greatsword, and blend in with the 80% of the players who do this, THAT is what a ninja would do.
Just some clarifications:

Not all ninjas were peasants. Many ninjas were also Samurai. The Iga and Koga Clans are famous for their professional ninjas, yet they were noble families. Yes, Samurai have a code of honor but in battle and warfare, you can bend the rules a bit. Samurai is a social class, ninjas are people who perform one or more of the roles of a ninja (catching thieves, spying, assassinations, information gathering, scouting, guarding castles, etc). The roles are not mutually exclusive.

On ninja outfits. The whole point of all ninja outfits is to blend in. This could vary from dressing up as a monk, to wearing commoner clothes, to even wearing all white on a night mission during a full moon. Blacks, dark blues, browns are common colors for ninjas because those are the colors most people wore at the time and blend in well during night missions. They might not be wearing the ninja pyjamas, but the colors are correct.

On katanas. Being a ninja often has little to do with fighting. Ninjutsu is not a martial art and ninja scrolls almost never talk about fighting techniques. Ninjutsu is all about espionage and what comes with it. More well trained ninjas are often schooled in some fighting techniques though (as you can imagine a samurai who has ninja skills). If you were caught as a ninja, having a sword wouldn't help that much. Yet, some ninjas still used swords (it also depends on what kind of ninja activity they were partaking in).    O-wakizashis were common (a sword in between the length of a wakizashi and a katana). The swords were commonly used for boosting oneself over a wall and could have modifications like replacing the metal handguard with a leather one to prevent rattling.

My point is that, yes the cRPG ninja is not entirely accurate but it is close enough (looks-wise at least, I don't know about a ninja running around in the middle of the battlefield :P).
« Last Edit: May 21, 2012, 04:00:49 am by Shatter »

Offline owens

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Re: Long Sword vs another sword
« Reply #18 on: May 21, 2012, 04:23:27 am »
+2
Give wakizashi 2h mode like cold steel did.
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Offline Gomer

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Re: Long Sword vs another sword
« Reply #19 on: May 21, 2012, 04:53:50 am »
+3
Combine longsword and Katana and make a 2 bladed weapon. Solved
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Offline Dalfador

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Re: Long Sword vs another sword
« Reply #20 on: May 21, 2012, 04:57:54 am »
+3
last thing we need is more bundle of stickss with katanas
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Offline Gomer

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Re: Long Sword vs another sword
« Reply #21 on: May 21, 2012, 04:58:48 am »
-1
last thing we need is more bundle of stickss with katanas
We need straight men with Katanas
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Offline FRANK_THE_TANK

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Re: Long Sword vs another sword
« Reply #22 on: May 21, 2012, 05:36:08 am »
0
God I love these threads. It had been way too long since the last one.
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Offline Gomer

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Re: Long Sword vs another sword
« Reply #23 on: May 21, 2012, 06:32:38 am »
-1
God I love these threads. It had been way too long since the last one.
It's cause I just got unmuted
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Offline FRANK_THE_TANK

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Re: Long Sword vs another sword
« Reply #24 on: May 21, 2012, 06:40:20 am »
0
lol
Fammi un pompino!

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Offline Gomer

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Re: Long Sword vs another sword
« Reply #25 on: May 21, 2012, 06:41:47 am »
-1
lol
Frank I could use ur input! Click the Support this link on my tag or click this if you'r scared of me posting hyper links to child porn again. http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,32238.0.html
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Offline BlindGuy

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Re: Long Sword vs another sword
« Reply #26 on: May 21, 2012, 08:07:02 am »
0
Just some clarifications:

Not all ninjas were peasants. Many ninjas were also Samurai. The Iga and Koga Clans are famous for their professional ninjas, yet they were noble families.

Stopped reading when you got this wrong. Neither were families as you or I understand, and they were not noble or samurai. Just village clans in deep valleys that hired themselves out alot as mercenaries. History vs myth, you chose myth, I stop reading. Good day sir.
I don't know enough

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Offline Gomer

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Re: Long Sword vs another sword
« Reply #27 on: May 21, 2012, 08:41:39 am »
-1
Stopped reading when you got this wrong. Neither were families as you or I understand, and they were not noble or samurai. Just village clans in deep valleys that hired themselves out alot as mercenaries. History vs myth, you chose myth, I stop reading. Good day sir.
Your grammar is horrific. I stopped reading half way through the first sentence due to not being able to understand wtf you mean. So please by all means don't take this personal but, Go fuck yourself.

Edit: Well your grammar is actually fine but you worded that horribly let me fix it.

Shatter your a cunt and I call bullshit go commit suicide you fucking hippy piece of communist shit.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2012, 08:45:30 am by Gomer »
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Offline Shatter

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Re: Long Sword vs another sword
« Reply #28 on: May 21, 2012, 09:14:13 am »
+1
Stopped reading when you got this wrong. Neither were families as you or I understand, and they were not noble or samurai. Just village clans in deep valleys that hired themselves out alot as mercenaries. History vs myth, you chose myth, I stop reading. Good day sir.
I guess this is what happens when you try to have a discussion on an internet forum. "I read 2 lines and am done." When I wrote my post I kind of breezed through it, so I will explain more to my point.

This isn't history vs. myth. I am not saying the stories about a koga ninja sneaking into a castle and killing hundreds of guards are true. I am saying the clans and samurai families from these regions themselves were real. Just because Apollo didn't send a plague through the Greek camp doesn't mean there was no city called Troy. I agree that there is an incredible amount of myth surrounding the clans. Perhaps I shouldn't have used the word noble because they are a kind of country nobility. The accounts of the city-elite refer to the Iga as "ji-samurai," as these kind of leaders of a poor, agricultural area. Yet, it's hard to imagine clans that control large amounts of land as poor people though and is more to the fact that it is city elites talking down about "country folk." They were in control of their own lands and were wealthy people by most standards. Samurai families had lived in those areas for years before any of the ninja business ever took hold. Whether or not all the fantastic tales about the Iga and Koga are true (of course most are made up), it shows that the idea of samurai as ninja, or having ninja clans was present.

I am not saying the high members of the clans were partaking in super dangerous missions or were doing low class tasks. You don't have to be a "full-time" ninja to be called a ninja. Leading a group of soldiers in the enemy camp at night time could get you labelled shinobi. Scouting out enemy fortifications or camps could get you labelled a shinobi. This idea of the "professional, full-time ninja" is misleading. Even a person who simply received money for giving information can be called a shinobi. Very few ninja were "full-time." So when I am saying samurai could be ninja, I am not saying they spend all their time being ninjas, but that they have a set of skills and are trained in ninja techniques.

Hattori Hanzo, another figure surrounded by myth, is both a samurai and a ninja. I doesn't matter if anything revolving around his actions are true. The fact that the idea of a samurai being a ninja exists in stories demonstrates that a samurai could be considered a ninja. My point was that ninja were not just peasants. Ninja came from many different social levels.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2012, 09:56:54 am by Shatter »

Offline BlindGuy

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Re: Long Sword vs another sword
« Reply #29 on: May 21, 2012, 10:59:22 am »
0
Nope. Ninja were peasants, you cannot ATTAIN samurai rank by valiant deeds, its a birthright. Just because samurai used dirty tricks in anonimity doesnt make them a ninja, they are still a samurai, the trained shinobi were peasants, if they had been noble by birth they wouldnt have been called shinobi, they woulda been called samurai, and just because a peasant was a brave and noble warrior doesnt make them a samurai.

Myth is a whole other discussion: Troy was a city in Turkey. It was destroyed and raised many times. But the Illiad is not a myth, it's a story written by Homer. It's pretty good, but a bit longwinded. Some great cities were flooded prior to Greek classical age, when the meditarrenean landbridge to africa thru Gibraltar parted thru seismic activity. Thus the legend of Atlantis. The egyptians had a complex society long before Jesus, but the Isrealite ppl never lived there, but when a tribe who WAS enslaved there left via the red sea, they crossed at low tide, because their leader was wise enough to understand tidal action, and thus they called him a profit. All myths are based on actual events from long before, told and retold. But that is beside the point:

The time of the shinobi in japan was NOT long ago, it was less than a millenia ago, and I refer to factual accounts of what took place, europe isnt the only place that wrote things down, Japan has a great historic tradition and when mercenaries where hired, it wasnt a shady meeting in a back alley secret room, it was an organised contract, recorded by the clan leaders of whatever tribe was being hired. There is no room for myth when the events are recorded by accountants.

Do I look japanese to you?

Immaterial, no european would ever use a inferior sword design if using valuable steel. They wouldn't make a katana. African metalworking was best in the north, and they had superior weapon combinations to the katana also: Scimitar. When used correctly, the scimitar is close to impossible to defeat, simply because it is not held away from the body in the style of the japanese, it is more easily fought by european sword style, which has been seemingly forgotton or not understood by you guys: You DONT swing your weapon, block enemy, swing your weapon, nor do you use the avoid-swipe-avoid of the japanese sword schools, scimitar is held around the body and you rotate blade and body, with the weight of your body on the blunt back of the blade, european sword schools teach that you have your blade in a guard you like, and most duels prior to FENCING, the guard you chose vs. your opponent decided the victor, there would be ONE strike, one glissade, one dead man. Unfortunatly for modern tv/movies, fencing and early hollywood Robin Hood movies have most ppl convinced there is much parrying and slashing, this is NOT the case.

Back to your topic: You wouldnt need to make such a soft fat blade as the katana if using toledo steel, remember the japanese lapped their steel hundreds of times to get the strengh needed to slice even human flesh, I doubt you could even dent plate armour if you beat on it for hours with a katana, the steel is just too shit.
I don't know enough

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