increase kick risk

[Lech]

Kick countered by kick don't sound like a bad idea until one use shield and can't block while kicking and the second person use greatsword and can block while kicking, which is common.

So it's just really good for 1h without shield or for short 2h/polearms.

There is no point kicking with shield - high risk, medium reward (1h don't hit hard, injustice).

[DaveUKR]

I've tested Urist's chamber kick. My feedback:

1) It works fine
2) Knockdown is pretty much long, you have time to think, even maulers will have time to attack
3) You get kicked no matter what, even if you chamber.

What I suggest:
1) Make it so that you don't get kicked when you chamber it
2) Make knockdown time significantly shorter
3) Make kick's reach a little bit bigger

What will get changed after patch:
1) You won't be able to block while kicking
2) Shielders will get a significant buff against twohanders/polearm users
3) Kick heroes will qq

[Knitler]

I've tested Urist's chamber kick. My feedback:

1) It works fine
2) Knockdown is pretty much long, you have time to think, even maulers will have time to attack
3) You get kicked no matter what, even if you chamber.

What I suggest:
1) Make it so that you don't get kicked when you chamber it
2) Make knockdown time significantly shorter
3) Make kick's reach a little bit bigger

What will get changed after patch:
1) You won't be able to block while kicking
2) Shielders will get a significant buff against twohanders/polearm users
3) Kick heroes will qq

QQ

But its always so when you have a game which youre good in and something gets edit you will QQ ^^

[Paul]

Noone knows when the new client with the noblock kicks goes live, could be quite some time. My kickchamber though will be in the next cRPG patch, independed from that.

I can't prevent the kick knockback from happening(hardcoded), so the knockdown has to be a bit longer.

[Vodner]

If it's a mix of reaction/anticipation similar to chambering with weapons, then this should be fantastic.

[Matey]

honestly i dont think a lot needs to be done to balance kicking... theres only 2 things needed to make it balanced IMO
1. remove blocking while kicking (and not just for 0.1 second vulnerability to thrusts as it is now) - if you miss the kick, you should get hit.
2. make the kick stagger last like 0.1-2 seconds longer so that its more valuable to kick someone.

the problem right now isnt with people who know how to kick being rewarded... the problem is guys just kicking all the fucking time because there is so little reason not to.

go with my changes and it rewards those who really know kicking, but punishes those who are just throwing them around.

[kinngrimm]

Noone knows when the new client with the noblock kicks goes live...

on what all does it depend?

[Son Of Odin]

A question for the new client users. Can you chamber block while you are kicking? I've never tried to pull that off while kicking but I might have a reason to learn how to do it now .

[Silveredge]

Just to clarify, you're saying the person that presses kick when he registers the startup frames of the enemy player's kick, knocks the other player down?  So the 2nd player who pressed the kick button benefits?  That would seem correct.  However, did you test if it works regardless if you hit the other player with the kick or not?  Or is it more like a counter-throw press in a fighting game, where you wouldnt have to even hit the other player directly with the kick?  Is it as long as the feet touch (lol @ "it's not gay" innuendos), or does the kick have to actually hit the other player's body as well?  If you just have to press the button without hitting the other player with the kick, I think it would lead to killing kick completely.

Also I am of the opinion that kicks don't need to be changed at all.  I can hover out of kick range for the duration of a duel, not seeing how getting kicked isn't the player's fault in the first place.  And if you have a point blank short weapon, that's the whole point, you take on that aspect of the weapon's weakness.  People who spam kick get hit, they can't turn with you and they can't block thrusts.  I'm pretty sure shields block frontal side attacks and overheads.  It just reduces the side coverage of the shield during the kick animation, so you can sneak in attacks around the shield since they can't turn with you.  I could be wrong, shielder's don't kick very often, they just fiercely hold right click.  But I do remember hitting the shield after a shielder threw out a random kick while cornered.  God forbid the only thing that can open up a right clicked shield(kick), actually gets used on them.

EDIT:  It's not like every peasant out there is kicking people like a pro, how often do you see a good kick executed on battle?  When I started getting kicked by top players a long time ago, I realized that I was "W" warrioring way too hard and modified my playstyle to lessen the chance of being kicked.  As long as you're concious of it in the fight it's not that big of a deal.  I didn't cry nerf this, nerf that on the forums, I found a way to deal with it, just like I dealt with numerous nerfs to my build.

[DaveUKR]

Just to clarify, you're saying the person that presses kick when he registers the startup frames of the enemy player's kick, knocks the other player down? So the 2nd player who pressed the kick button benefits?

Yes, Player A who kicks gets on the ground, Player B who chamberkicks gets kicked but still has enough time to attack Player A.

However, did you test if it works regardless if you hit the other player with the kick or not? Or is it more like a counter-throw press in a fighting game, where you wouldnt have to even hit the other player directly with the kick?

If Player B misses the kick - he just gets kicked and Player A doesn't fall on the ground.

[Matey]

I'm a jerk who only ever uses big gay 2handed weapons and so I don't see why kicking is scary (P.S. I NEVER used the 1 slot 2 handed mace, and especially not for long periods of time)

It's scary cause it means that a player with more reach than you can just fight you from outside your range and the only way to get close enough to hit the guy is to run forward at which point they just stop holding S and kick you. It's also scary cause it totally fucks over a lot of footwork options when dealing with kickers, also, the "cant block thrusts" thing is still a load of shit because you literally have to start thrusting BEFORE the kick even happens, so if they notice you are thrusting they just chamber your thrusts or laugh as your shitty 1h thrust glances or misses and then cut you in half.

[Silveredge]

Quote from: Silveredge on Today at 10:04:23 am
I'm a jerk who only ever uses big gay 2handed weapons and so I don't see why kicking is scary (P.S. I NEVER used the 1 slot 2 handed mace, and especially not for long periods of time)

Well at least you acknowledged that I used a 70 reach weapon, which would imply that I actually know about dealing with kickers.  When Miley started kicking the shit out of me with my mace I altered my footwork and caught on very quickly to start looking for the kick.  I stopped getting kicked all over the place and went back to beating people senseless.  I miss the mace sometimes.

By the way, pretty sure its not cool to fabricate(not just edit) words for people, but it was funny.  And I'm not a 2h, I'm a crossbowman ;)  If I was a real 2h I'd be a lot faster with my attacks.

[OssumPawesome]

i dunno kicking is pretty risky

[DaveUKR]

i dunno kicking is pretty risky

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[oprah_winfrey]

It's scary cause it means that a player with more reach than you can just fight you from outside your range and the only way to get close enough to hit the guy is to run forward at which point they just stop holding S and kick you. It's also scary cause it totally fucks over a lot of footwork options when dealing with kickers, also, the "cant block thrusts" thing is still a load of shit because you literally have to start thrusting BEFORE the kick even happens, so if they notice you are thrusting they just chamber your thrusts or laugh as your shitty 1h thrust glances or misses and then cut you in half.

An easy way to counter someone who is just going to S-key until you walk into their kick: Dont W key into their fucking kick. If you just stand still, you will destroy their entire strategy. Mind blowing I know.