Proposed bow modification to produce different functions/playstyles

[PanPan]

Leave rusbow unchanged hey, while nerfing tatar bow and horn bow, wich have already a pretty bad missile speed.

Slower missile speed is in no way an advantage, it means it's easier to dodge, more difficult to aim even at medium distance (i already have to do some terrible arcs) and seriously, it's impossible to play with the arc unless you're "cheating" and have modified the arrow's look by brightening it.


And seriously, i don't want to 1hit kill horses charging at me, i don't want my base damage to be nerfed again, just because of that missile speed nerf.


Definitely no.

Somebody said that already?

The Rus Bow and the Horn Bow have the same missile speed.

And imo for such a ''little'' bow it's too much compared to the bigger Rus Bow.

[Rumblood]

Your OP claims that "The advantages gained by the slower missile speed DOES outweight ...", so you are aware that there ARE disadvantages, or to put it in other words, this is some kind of nerf. Of course you also point out the advantags but it seems not many people seem to agree with these, including me.

No. Disadvantages that are balanced by advantages yield a net zero sum. It is not a nerf.

You seem to be struggling with the concept of "balance" here.

You claim that only 2 or 3 bows or worth using, and yet STILL need to ask me what the purpose would be? 

[XyNox]

No. Disadvantages that are balanced by advantages yield a net zero sum. It is not a nerf.

You seem to be struggling with the concept of "balance" here.

You claim that only 2 or 3 bows or worth using, and yet STILL need to ask me what the purpose would be? 

Yes, actually I seem to struggle how these changes can be called balance. I struggle to understand how its not a nerf for me when my arrows fly even slower now. I hope you dont assume nerfing every usable bow to get them in line with those completely useless right now is a valid form of "balance".

This is like lowering the speed rating of every 2h weapon except the german and danish GS by 70, afterward complain that they are OP and everyone uses only those two 2h weapons and suggesting to nerf them to get them in line to be equally useless so people start using other 2h weapons than german and danish, which sadly seems to be the standard crpg nerf policy.

Maybe I didnt choose my words carfully enough so I will adress this once more:
You suggest this expecting the changes will lead to a lower popularity of the famous bows and spread diversity. The goal as I understand is to see more tartar bows, maybe more nomad bows, maybe even more longbows on the battlefield. As of now almost nobody uses short, normal, nomad and tartar bow (except HA). Although you want diversity, meaning you want exactly these bows to get more popular, the very thing you suggest is to nerf these bows ? Yes of course, the zero sum thing. Lobbing and arrow over cover with my xray vision once a year or the fact that bigger bows get buffed is sure enough reason to take a useless small bow, that is even slower and weaker now, only because you know that that longbow from that guy on the other side of the map got a speed buff.

I can absolutely see no buff for small bows here. And without such a buff nobody will consider to seriously use them. What I CAN see though is a nerf for small bows. Maybe you thought that im kidding when I asked what the purpose of this is, I was not. I still have not figured out how such a change would bring diversity, but I can imagine very well that things might get even worse.

Edit:
In case its not obviouse, yes, I like diversity too. Sure Id like to see more than 2 bows in the game, my only complaint is not to nerf the useless bows again but buffing them instead, which I doupt would be the case after such implementations.

[Rumblood]

Who uses Nomad and Tatar? Myself (foot archer) and Horse Archers.

Foot Archers - Lose a very slight amount of damage on normal shots. The "No dodge zone" is slightly shorter. In return I gain a large damage increase from speed bonus shots which includes everything from Charging horses, infantry running towards you, and firing from a higher elevation to a lower elevation. I gain the ability to shoot xbows ducking below a roofline to reload due to the arc over. I gain the ability to shoot cavalry after they pass behind a hilltop or friendly infantry. I can stand right behind my pikemen and lob arrows into the enemy unmolested. This is done every round as opposed to once a year as you exaggerate. You haven't had the opportunity to see how it works, so I understand that you don't understand that part.
Oh yes, and due to the arc of the incoming arrow, you get around 10-25% more headshots which gives, what, 10x damage? In fact, this is a buff to those bows when it is used properly as they will average greater damage over time.

Horse Archers - Gain everything that the Foot archer gets, except since they are always moving, they won't see even the slight damage loss on normal shots and the "No Dodge zone" isn't a concern. This is actually quite a buff to HA's.


Horn bow will lose some popularity as the arc won't be as pronounced as the Tatar (and its advantages aren't as pronounced) and its normal damage will be slightly reduced with the speed bonus not as pronounced. It will still be a fast bow with decent damage but it will no longer be one of a pair of bows being used.

Long Bow will gain popularity as its nearly straight line flight will make it superior to the Rus except for draw speed. The Rus will become the option for Medium range Damage bow.

I think that the more melee and cavalry realize what these changes will bring, they will rapidly begin clicking the NO option for this poll.

[Bulzur]

Somebody said that already?

The Rus Bow and the Horn Bow have the same missile speed.

And imo for such a ''little'' bow it's too much compared to the bigger Rus Bow.

It's definitely true "in paper", but doesn't feel like that at all. Maybe just an impression.

[Rumblood]

It's definitely true "in paper", but doesn't feel like that at all. Maybe just an impression.

If you are using it them both then it shouldn't be "an impression". You would be consistently aiming higher or lower than you would with the other bow.

[Bulzur]

If you are using it them both then it shouldn't be "an impression". You would be consistently aiming higher or lower than you would with the other bow.

Yet again, missile speed is indeed the same "on paper". So how is this damn curve influenced ? Wich stat ? An hidden one probably.
And, it's been a while since i used the rusbow, so... i forgot the feeling. 

On another note, archery is bad for the eyes. Having to look very carefully at your screen to look where your arrow is "actually" landing, to know if you have to aim higher or note. Funny thing, sometimes, i have the time to release a second arrow before hearing the caracterised "thud" when the first one hit something.
Other funny thing, sometimes my arrow fly straight through a body.

Ah, the archer's life... if this crafting wasn't there, i'd just go 2h already...

[Rumblood]

Well archery was changed and they went a different direction. Testing for what changed and how it effects everything.

Right now my guess would be:

Increased missile speed - Arrows fly in more of a straight line
Increased Air resistance - While initially flying faster, they don't seem to fly quite as far. Arrows now have a very unnatural arc to them. They fly very straight for 90% of their distance, then swoop to the ground.

Tatar Bow with PD 8 is one-shotting both light armored players and horses...

[Rumblood]

Bringing this back. I let it drop after the patch for awhile to see how the new balance is working.

It isn't.

Dev's this is how bow balance needs to be. With actual reasons to use the different ones. Right now there is no style difference with bows that are used, and those are so far superior to the others (*cough Longbow) that there is no reason to use anything but the favored 2 (3 I like my Tatar even if others don't).

If air resistance was increased last patch (as I suspect from the unnatural arc on the arrows now), then reduce it back again.

[Lordark]

Your right again Grandpappy!

Longbow needs speed nerf since its sooo accurate!  Arrows speed is fine! Its still gotta be competitive after all.

Perhaps increase rus bow dmg a bit to make it better than horn bow and give tartars a little reload speed since they are just that weak!