Author Topic: Solution to the Strength Madness???  (Read 11817 times)

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Offline _Tak_

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Re: Solution to the Strength Madness???
« Reply #150 on: March 19, 2012, 05:28:16 pm »
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The difference is anything but great for how much PS (or other skills) you can get with sacrificing WM.

well if you don't gain any wps during levelling no one will be able to have pure STR build which means one of the class in crpg will be gone forever :
(click to show/hide)

This will also affect other classes because:
(click to show/hide)

As a lancer i must have WPP because on 111 heavy lance will glance alot and won't be able to do much damage and is so slow compare with 156 wpp

Offline Vibe

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Re: Solution to the Strength Madness???
« Reply #151 on: March 19, 2012, 05:32:52 pm »
+1
well if you don't gain any wps during levelling no one will be able to have pure STR build which means one of the class in crpg will be gone forever :
(click to show/hide)

This will also affect other classes because:
(click to show/hide)

As a lancer i must have WPP because on 111 heavy lance will glance alot and won't be able to do much damage and is so slow compare with 156 wpp

First off, pure STR builds will still be viable even with 0 WM and you'll play like a tank. Means slow swing speed, but powerful and a lot of HP. Saying noone will be able to have pure STR builds is complete BS.

Second, ofcourse there will need to be a significant boost to wpf gain per wm to match the wpf values we have now.

Third, 21/21 111 wpf lancer build does not fucking glance. get skillz


Also the last part tells me that you're one of those 0 WM crutchers?
« Last Edit: March 19, 2012, 05:37:42 pm by Vibe »

Offline _Tak_

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Re: Solution to the Strength Madness???
« Reply #152 on: March 19, 2012, 05:36:55 pm »
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Okay let say if all players don't get wpp during levelling, then what happen to the people who don't have Weapon Master? Get free respec? :D

Offline Vibe

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Re: Solution to the Strength Madness???
« Reply #153 on: March 19, 2012, 05:38:12 pm »
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Okay let say if all players don't get wpp during levelling, then what happen to the people who don't have Weapon Master? Get free respec? :D

Don't care really, I always used full WM.

Offline CrazyCracka420

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Re: Solution to the Strength Madness???
« Reply #154 on: March 19, 2012, 05:55:34 pm »
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Okay let say if all players don't get wpp during levelling, then what happen to the people who don't have Weapon Master? Get free respec? :D

Yes, if they make it so you don't get WPP when you level they would need to give a free respec to players.  Ideally I'd like to see them remove WPP from levelling, or only give you free WPP until level 20 or something like that.  And then also level out the curve a bit so that WM actually means something (but maybe just removing the free WPP on every level would be balanced enough).  As it stands power strike is a lot better option than WM for any melee class.  And you're better off using those WM points to get 3 more str and 1 more ps.

The difference in speed and damage is noticeable from 110-150, but from 110-130 not so much.  And even the 110-150 speed difference isn't enough to make or break most fights.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2012, 05:56:39 pm by CrazyCracka420 »
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Offline Lichen

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Re: Solution to the Strength Madness???
« Reply #155 on: March 19, 2012, 06:32:05 pm »
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Those who like the idea of no free weapon proficiency should make a STF character to test out a strength build with 0wpf to see how good or bad it is. If it's still possible to get kills and not be spammed into the ground by everything then ok.

Offline Vibe

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Re: Solution to the Strength Madness???
« Reply #156 on: March 19, 2012, 06:52:08 pm »
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Those who like the idea of no free weapon proficiency should make a STF character to test out a strength build with 0wpf to see how good or bad it is. If it's still possible to get kills and not be spammed into the ground by everything then ok.

I've played with 0 wpf before, just fine to kill people with. I don't see what the point of this is though. If you make a pure STR build with 0 skills in WM, then suffer for it.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2012, 06:55:20 pm by Vibe »

Offline CrazyCracka420

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Re: Solution to the Strength Madness???
« Reply #157 on: March 19, 2012, 07:38:28 pm »
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Those who like the idea of no free weapon proficiency should make a STF character to test out a strength build with 0wpf to see how good or bad it is. If it's still possible to get kills and not be spammed into the ground by everything then ok.

What?  You're missing the whole point here.  The point being brought up is that WM as it currently stands, is a throw-away skill for melee classes.  With 0 WM you can still have like 110 in one skill from the what you get at levelling.

So what you're telling me should be go play STF and put 0 WM, and 110 skill into one proficiency and see if you're viable.  The answer is a resounding YES, you can play with 110 WPP in a melee skill and be very useful to your team. 
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Offline Vexus

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Re: Solution to the Strength Madness???
« Reply #158 on: March 19, 2012, 07:41:17 pm »
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What?  You're missing the whole point here.  The point being brought up is that WM as it currently stands, is a throw-away skill for melee classes.  With 0 WM you can still have like 110 in one skill from the what you get at levelling.

So what you're telling me should be go play STF and put 0 WM, and 110 skill into one proficiency and see if you're viable.  The answer is a resounding YES, you can play with 110 WPP in a melee skill and be very useful to your team.

0 WPF not 0 WM

Offline CrazyCracka420

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Re: Solution to the Strength Madness???
« Reply #159 on: March 19, 2012, 07:49:06 pm »
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0 WPF not 0 WM

You're arguing for me.  0 wpf isn't as good as 110 WPF.  What's your fucking point?  My point is that they should make WM more valuable of a skill.  they could do this by removing the free WPF at every level. 

I'm not suggesting that people with 0 WM would then have 0 WPF on their characters.  The dev's would have to let people respec without losing experience if they ever did something like this.  So I fail to see what your point is.  Maybe you could, I dunno, explain your position...you know, the thing that people do when they make arguments?
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Offline Vexus

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Re: Solution to the Strength Madness???
« Reply #160 on: March 19, 2012, 07:56:23 pm »
+1
I wasn't arguing with you just stating that you should read carefully before responding.

He said 0 wpf NOT 0 wm.

Offline EyeBeat

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Re: Solution to the Strength Madness???
« Reply #161 on: March 19, 2012, 08:57:20 pm »
+3
chadz please get rid of wpf on level.  Thank you.
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Offline CrazyCracka420

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Re: Solution to the Strength Madness???
« Reply #162 on: March 19, 2012, 09:03:21 pm »
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it's a great idea for balancing STR with AGI, but if they didn't allow people a free respec shit would be nuts.  Since they don't want to give people free respecs, I doubt this idea will ever happen.
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Offline _Tak_

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Re: Solution to the Strength Madness???
« Reply #163 on: March 19, 2012, 09:06:34 pm »
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it's a great idea for balancing STR with AGI, but if they didn't allow people a free respec shit would be nuts.  Since they don't want to give people free respecs, I doubt this idea will ever happen.

I don't want this idea to happen, no thank you  :P

Offline Frederick

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Re: Solution to the Strength Madness???
« Reply #164 on: March 19, 2012, 11:43:36 pm »
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This is a bit of a radical solution...

Why don't you simply REMOVE strength and agility entirely and make the skills the sole determinants in a players stats?

Currently, the two attributes perform two [and a half] functions.

1. Hedging the maximum that a player can invest in a given skill
2. Strength - Increased Melee weapon damage, increased HP, Agility - Increased movement speed, increased melee speed
3. For Strength, certain melee weapons are restricted if the player lacks the

Now for the second one, all of the core functions of strength and agility are already subsumed under all of the skills...

Strength simply bolsters attributes covered by Powerstrike and iron flesh, and agility bolsters attributes already covered by athletics and weapon mastery. So in the process of eliminating strength and agility you bolster the

This wouldn't directly solve the problem of strength being the more effective attribute than agility, but it would make it easier to balance the strength based skills with the agility based builds, since the skills are no longer being proxied by anything.

I imagine a player's access to Armor be determined by their iron flesh instead of their strength. A player's access to melee weapons would be dependent upon either weapon proficiency or Power strike would vary depending on the weapon in question. For example;

Weapon Proficiency; All one handed Swords, Lighter Two handed swords [Katana, longsword, Bastard Sword] One handed picks, 'Lighter' spears [Warspear and red tassel spear for example]

Power Strike; Maces, Heavy Twohanded weapons [Mauls, large two handed swords, and large polearms]