Solution to the Strength Madness???

[Xant]

Yeah, I was totally saying you can't hiltslash without glancing with a strength build. And you don't know what you're talking about.

[Logen]

And I don't know what I'm talking about.

as always

[Elindor]

sure this has been said but 2 things make sense to me:

- people get too much WPF without WM or low WM investment
- why does str give HP?  What if str gave 0 HP and IF gave 3 or 4 HP instead of 2?

and I hate agi and str whores equally ;) 
Im 18/21 6PS 7 ATH 7 WPM 3 IF with +3 longsword and +3 transitional....works pretty well, sometimes I get crushed by a str build after I hit them 6 times and they hit me once....sometimes I get out paced by an agi whore weaboo   Sometimes I beat both kinds...

its player skill and situations, some situations cater to diff builds....tops of ladders SUCK for me, courtyards rock for me. 

but the 2 suggestions above DO make sense to me and I think would be better balancing.

[Ronin]

I think AGI and STR are quite balanced. Dunno why really but practice proves it. A character with high AGI is a force to be reckoned with as well as a character with high STR and character with a balanced build. Otherwise the term "Agiwhore" wouldn't exist at all. Or it would be "agifail" or such. Yes a STR build hits hard, can take much more hits. But hey! That's all.

Mobility is very important in battlefield as well as strength. These two are both important thingies.

Yeah, I totally don't hiltslash people with 12 PS on Brunchlady all day long without glancing. It ups my base damage so high it rarely if ever glances.
Besides, strength builds can match movement direction of an agi player, it really isn't a big deal. Direction > speed. The bonus movement speed of an agi build is a double-edged sword. A good player will always use it against them -- or negate it back to square one if both players counter move/swing.

While this is very true, the guy with the high agility has the actual control of it. Other than that, the guy with the AGI is with the high athletics, while the guy with the high STR is dependent. Meaning the guy with the high AGI can benefit more from this, including moving swiftly in the battlefield. This relationship is also a bit similiar to the relationship between a chevalier and a spearmen though.

[zagibu]

sure this has been said but 2 things make sense to me:

- people get too much WPF without WM or low WM investment
- why does str give HP?  What if str gave 0 HP and IF gave 3 or 4 HP instead of 2?

I think that's a good idea. Toughness != physical strength. I know some pretty light dudes that could take a whole lot more pain than one of those overblown gym room pussies.

[Bobthehero]

sure this has been said but 2 things make sense to me:

- people get too much WPF without WM or low WM investment
- why does str give HP?  What if str gave 0 HP and IF gave 3 or 4 HP instead of 2?

That's about the only change I wouldn't mind, since it wouldn't fuck my build up, at all.

[TurmoilTom]

Strength builds could be weakened considerably with an effectiveness cap similar to what power draw has.

Effective only up to 4 or 5 power strike than the maximum power strike allowed by the weapon's difficulty, for example.

Just an idea. 

[Leshma]

Give 1 HP per AGI but only to players who use 1H without shield

[Logen]

and buff leftswing for them

[Gurnisson]

Strength is overrated. Balanced builds are a lot better for anyone moderately skilled

[FRANK_THE_TANK]

just remove stranth as an option from the game. Simple.

[Bobthehero]

Give 1 HP per AGI but only to players who use 1H without shield

NO

[Leshma]

STR chars suck against cavalry and ranged but they are kings of melee.

Recently I've made 36/3 peasant using cudgel. Muffin was on his agi 1H/buckler alt (he was killing almost everyone in melee combat). I had 95 HP and 8 body armor. He hit me two or three times with his super fast sword, I hit him once with my 12 PS cudgel, knocked him down and killed him with another overhead while he was lying defenseless.

That is major problem with STR builds. You need 5-20 hits to kill them and all they need to do is to hit you once or twice. And due to messed up weapon hitbox, lag, lucky chambers etc. STR builds are able to kill AGI chars quite often, and not because they were better opponent.

Smart players will simply abuse animations and the fact that chambered weapon speed is similar for all builds. Hold your weapon, block few attacks of an AGI whore, wait for your chance and release it, killing him with one blow. GG.

[Elindor]

Unfortunately, what Leshma describes above is largely true.

[zagibu]

And this could be countered by removing extra HP from strength. And maybe increasing damage bonus from WPF.