cavalry complaints

[Son Of Odin]

A lot of the cav that popped up seems to be infantry that decided to put some points into riding. Make it so you can't be a beast of a hybrid. You can't get more than 50 % of your riding into athletics if you're cav and not more than 50 % of your athletics into riding if you're infantry.

Nah, honestly, I don't find cav that bad bar for the spawnraping. Fuck spawnraping and the ones who do it.

Am I a beast of a hybrid with 6ps, 6 riding, 6 athletics and all wpf in polearms? I don't have any shieldskill tho... I think it is perfectly ok to make a hybrid with 2 possible game styles and still be effective if you take your time and learn how and make compromises into your build. Ofc the pure build is always better but playing only cavalry or infantry gets boring to me and I don't want to be retiring or respeccing all the time . There is other viable hybrids out there like melee/thrower etc. 2 class hybrids are ok, but putting 3 classes in your hybrid is not viable option nowadays I think, and that is how it should be.

[karasu]

Seems to me that we have another Karasu/Jarlek in the making...

I'm starting to realize you have an obsession with me Leshma, it's getting to a point beyond passionate stalking to an extreme situation of overwhelming necessity of expressing your true feelings and I get it. But let me warn you, I'm an oldschool romanticist.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_ILDFp5DGA&feature=player_detailpage#t=80s


(✿◠‿◠)/ ♥

[Zerran]

And tell me how cavalry could be more "skillbased" as you say? By nerfing it to hell? It won't work because then even the most skilled cav wouldn't be as effective as their skill-level should allow them to be.
WUT?

If cavalry is OP to you, get a polearm. Similiar to what was said about archery (Take a shield). And you don't even need a polearm if you stay focused. Yes cavalry is devastating to the infantry which is advancing and attacking other infantry or lonely wanderers, but isn't that how it is supposed to be? I think cavalry encourages teamplay in that sense too. I always giggle when I put my lance through flanking fail ninja (Thomek not you. When I see your throwing weapons I usually wait until you don't see me ). Upkeep cost is the only way atm to balance out players who don't have the will to learn and be good cav. There is absolutely no point to use so much gold being bad cavalry.

EDIT: And I would like to add to this conversation that good k/d doesn't neccessarily make you skilled or good cav. If you only spawnrape and take easy kills you can get somewhat decent k/d. IMO good cavalry player knows how to help his team to win by bumping enemies, killing ranged, killing enemy cav or their horses etc. That is how you make your team win the rounds and it is more important to me than a good k/d ratio.

I think you're misunderstanding me a bit. I'm not saying cav should be NERFED per-say, but rather that something should be done to make it a more SKILL BASED class. The whole issue, as you pointed out, is how to do this WITHOUT just nerfing them. Nerfing does not increase how skill based a class is, as you said, it just drops the abilities of everyone.

Slightly off topic: I'm a pikeman, I have no issue dealing with cav as long as I pay attention, for other people though this is not the case.

[Son Of Odin]

I think you're misunderstanding me a bit. I'm not saying cav should be NERFED per-say, but rather that something should be done to make it a more SKILL BASED class. The whole issue, as you pointed out, is how to do this WITHOUT just nerfing them. Nerfing does not increase how skill based a class is, as you said, it just drops the abilities of everyone.

Slightly off topic: I'm a pikeman, I have no issue dealing with cav as long as I pay attention, for other people though this is not the case.

Yeah I think everyone can agree with that, but how is it possible? The whole nature of cavalry is a bit tricky to make it more "difficult" for starters. Who doesn't hate the spawnrape fest? That is what happens when new cav players see the opportunity. Anyhow it is insanely skill based class if we talk about the top cav players. The skill level comes really into play when you fight other cavalry (which is crucially important to make your team win). Trying to kill the top cavalry players on horseback is difficult, but if you are succesful it helps your team and you can get multiplier for reward even if it was only his horse you killed.

[Adrian]

Cav is just ultra fail, especially lancer/xbow cav. End of story

[Aleta]

To make cavalry more skill based remove bumping damage completely (keep knockdown) and reduce the maneuverability of all the horses. One could reduce horse prices to weigh up for the nerfing this will cause.

[Laufknoten]

Good cav play is:
-dodging arrows/pikes
-picking unaware enemys
-getting a lot of kills
-and I should add: doing no harm to own team...

Maybe they have some disadvantages, but they're still easily the most effective class and they get the most kills if they're doing it right, so the high upkeep is okay.

[Rangerbob]

How about 40% damage when the player is thrown off their horse after its killed?

Also plated cav is stupid.  Normalize the and health values.  I agree balancing by money is not the way to go.  All it does is penalize new players. 

[Glyph]

don't get this tread wrong guys, cav stills holds skill, but if you want to be cav, skill is not enough to be it, unlike the other classes. my pint is, you also need money.

[Tzar]

I think its only fair to give each cav player aids when they spawn so they slowly die that gives them 1 min to be in combat an increase price on horse upkeep..

[Leshma]

Good idea Tzar. But it shouldn't be just cav. Every player who hit someone from behind or shoot at someone should contract AIDS. Then clock starts ticking till it goes from 60 to 0. That would promote skill and fair play.

Those backstabbers (including myself) and my old friendchers still have more than enough time to contribute by killing enemies.

[Kafein]

Yeah, upkeep doesn't work anymore.

And "skilled" lancer these days is the one who backstab the best. Cav are better ninjas than Thomek's crew.

This is because it's nearly the only thing left for us. Charging an aware *anything* involves risks, may it be an archer, a 1h or even a peasant with a stick shorter than my arm. Add that horses go down fairly quickly to ranged damage when they don't hide.

That's why the best cav are the sneakiest. It only takes a different skillset compared to melee or range.

To make cavalry more skill based remove bumping damage completely (keep knockdown) and reduce the maneuverability of all the horses. One could reduce horse prices to weigh up for the nerfing this will cause.

Nonsense. Even a +3 arabian warhorse is barely able to turn faster than a RL supertanker

Yes, a supertanker. Like this one :

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


And on the contrary, infantry that wear less than 20kg of equipment move like mosquitos.

Yes, mosquitos. Like this one :

visitors can't see pics , please register or login



Now, you might think this is ok in terms of balance. It is not. Cav should be a decent counter to range. They aren't because of all footmen, ranged are the most elusive. The only way to reliably get one is to remain unseen and unheard, which pretty much means the ranged was terribad. Fact is, the easiest prey for cav are people with heavy armor and/or a shield, because they don't have Unreal Tournament-like movement freedom.


Furthermore, decreasing maneuver will only make the skill level of cav lower. Maneuver gives possibilities, and it takes skill to use these possibilities to the best. At the extreme, if all horses were unable to turn, the difference between good and bad cav would be non-existent.

[Torost]

Should be own WPF for Horsemanship, the higher you go the more chargedmg and knockdown you get. And with 0 you get no knockdown or bumpdmg.

Horse and possibly rider should take damage when hitting other players while at full speed. Esp when they come at full speed jumping and crashing into the stonewall of some ruin poking me ontop with the lance midair.

Cost: If it was possible to run around in top quality armor on a armorplated warhorse and break even, then everyone would be doing it. And the servers would be horrible for everyone. Im just breaking even playing with my rusbow and 2x bodkins.

The inflation in crpg is pretty high, if this rate keeps up, then upkeep will soon not be a limiting factor for any playstyle.

[Son Of Odin]

don't get this tread wrong guys, cav stills holds skill, but if you want to be cav, skill is not enough to be it, unlike the other classes. my pint is, you also need money.

Nice edit to OP. Yes I get what you mean. But is the upkeep cost really too much? I don't see heavy cavalry over powered. Usually I wipe my ass with the heavy riders because my courser is superior to their plated donkeys in cav fights (one exception is that Kapikulu guy, he is insane.) Of course their heavy horses are better against infantry in some situations. They dont need to be too careful about when they engage because their horse can take some beating. On the other hand they are slower and are easilly avoidable in the last second. I think that being heavy cav should cost you a lot like it is now. If horse costs go down, horsemen would use heavier armor (plates which would benefit a rider more than common inf) with the unarmored horses. That would not only look stupid, but would be unfair against infantry.

Guys riding with armored horses and heavy armor do it because they can and have the gold for it. Maybe they are op in some situations, but isn't full plated 2h spamberger too? You also need gold to do that. Wasn't the upkeep to make people play with lighter gear too... If there really is a problem, I see it isn't only about horse upkeep, it is about the whole upkeep structure.

[Glyph]

Should be own WPF for Horsemanship, the higher you go the more chargedmg and knockdown you get. And with 0 you get no knockdown or bumpdmg.

Horse and possibly rider should take damage when hitting other players while at full speed. Esp when they come at full speed jumping and crashing into the stonewall of some ruin poking me ontop with the lance midair.

Cost: If it was possible to run around in top quality armor on a armorplated warhorse and break even, then everyone would be doing it. And the servers would be horrible for everyone. Im just breaking even playing with my rusbow and 2x bodkins.

The inflation in crpg is pretty high, if this rate keeps up, then upkeep will soon not be a limiting factor for any playstyle.

if inflation keeps going like this, yes, cav will be playable with whatever equipment, but for new players this isn't the case, becasue they still want heirlooms and don't have a lot of gens. i feel like a lot of changes have been made to the mod which have been in the disadvantage of new players. which is a waist imo.