Effective skill maximums as they pertain to melee

[Furax]

I disagree. This is a game/computer program. Ultimately, it all comes down to numbers, like everything else in the game. And I'm certain there is a formula that can be applied here. Said formula simply isn't publicly available at this point.

Speed bonus from swings/thrusts is a client variable from the whiff(-x%)to a crazy uber well placed horse lance(got a 750% speed bonus in singeplayer once xD)

[Xant]

I have 20 total weight on my agi build and Im fast with 148 wpf, so thats not your problem. More agi and more ath will make you more maneuvrable.

I think the formula is : WPF - total weight = real WPF

So -12.5 is nothing really.

Weapon weight shouldn't affect WPF

[jspook]

My next question is.... so does high strength affect encumberance?

[Ganon]

Anyone else finding Gorath's posts extremely biased (towards himself) and also extremely noobish ?

I don't agree on any maximum, it depends on the character and playstyle, there's no fixed maximum each character build and each player are different.

[Vicious666]

Anyone else finding Gorath's posts extremely biased (towards himself) and also extremely noobish ?

I don't agree on any maximum, it depends on the character and playstyle, there's no fixed maximum each character build and each player are different.

+1

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[dontgothere]

I think Gorath's post was really interesting!    Thanks Gorath!

[Gorath]

Anyone else finding Gorath's posts extremely biased (towards himself) and also extremely noobish ?

I don't agree on any maximum, it depends on the character and playstyle, there's no fixed maximum each character build and each player are different.

They're opinions presented with reasoning as to why I've come to the conclusions that I have.  Opinions are always biased from ones own perspective.     This was for discussion of other peoples thoughts, experiences and conclusions as it pertains to the value of some skills and at what point they feel the value ceases to be worth the point cost.

Just because you have no worthwhile input doesn't mean other people haven't been sharing their own thoughts as to the effective value cap of certain skills.  However, thanks for bumping the thread.  As for the topic at hand, do you find a noticable benefit to 8 athletics while wearing medium-heavy armor vs someone with 4 athletics wearing medium-heavy armor?  If so does it seem like double the speed and maneuverability?  Do you feel that your shielder with 7-8 shield skill is faster than the str-shielders who only have 4 shield in order to huscarl it up?  What's the speed difference you notice between someone with 130 wpf and someone with 150 (effectively 2-3 more wm for that 20 point increase)?

Or do you just fail to comprehend the point of the discussion and thread still?

[Tears of Destiny]

Anyone else finding Gorath's posts extremely biased (towards himself) and also extremely noobish ?

I don't agree on any maximum, it depends on the character and playstyle, there's no fixed maximum each character build and each player are different.

Considering he brought up reasons for every one of his opinions, I will say no.
Regardless of Athletics on light armored targets, it is practically worthless for tin cans to take any amount of Athletics beyond an initial few (And he did say this).

I think while I disagree with a few of his points here, there are a considerable amount of good points. He is not presenting this as Gospel (Do this or you scrubnub), he is merely saying "Anyone else agree with this too? this is what I found."

[Spawny]

I agree on most what Gorath said. I've had 8 shieldskill and 8 athletics and it's nice to be quick on your feet in 1 on 1 duels. It helps there.

But I did find it disturbing I could hit someone 3 times, mess up once and drop dead in a single hit. Now I have a 21/15 build and it works nice, but it still takes too many hits on some players to take them out and I hardly notice the difference in duels. The only thing I have to watch out for are the backward jumpswings as you will get outreached and killed if you try to keep up.

Next gen I will probably try a 24/12 build and see how that goes with full IF/PS and 4 in shield/ath/WM. I doubt it will be a large speeddifference, but the survivability and extra damage should make up for that.

[IG_Saint]

Just because you have no worthwhile input doesn't mean other people haven't been sharing their own thoughts as to the effective value cap of certain skills.  However, thanks for bumping the thread.  As for the topic at hand, do you find a noticable benefit to 8 athletics while wearing medium-heavy armor vs someone with 4 athletics wearing medium-heavy armor?  If so does it seem like double the speed and maneuverability?  Do you feel that your shielder with 7-8 shield skill is faster than the str-shielders who only have 4 shield in order to huscarl it up?  What's the speed difference you notice between someone with 130 wpf and someone with 150 (effectively 2-3 more wm for that 20 point increase)?

I agree and this is also why the balance between pures and hybrids needs to be changed. You just don't get enough for being a pure, certainly not enough to justify not taking a ranged weapon.

[Deafening]

w/r/t athletics, single point increases have always felt substantial to me. Of course, it's only immediately after the upgrade that you notice, then you habituate and feels basically the same.

I can say, the jump from 6 to 7 on Rain's current build was huge, with my current loadout of Heater+German+Italian/Hammer+Usual-Armor, so eh. Also, on my latest alt, tremendous upgrade from 7-8. It is a ninja build basically, so perhaps irrelevant. I couldn't believe how much faster it was though.

Also, you're probably doing it wrong. I can dance around Cyranule (with shield at least) / Walllace / whomever else fine. Goretooth is peculiarly speedy though.

[Hurf_Durf]

so nobody uses ironflesh...?

[Tears of Destiny]

so nobody uses ironflesh...?

Oh people do, certainly, if they are laying a heavy set armor build, or have a few extra points to burn or for the lulz.

[Kafein]

Currently, armor values are so low and people hit so hard with small weapons that everything you are interested into is sheer speed. Strenght build might be succesful, but usually either the player behind is skilled or the char is crushthrough oriented.

-ATH perhaps the better skill IMO. Makes you able to choose fights, to reliably kill groups of enemies (running in and out), to surprise attack and play with weapon reaches
-WM the increase in wpf seems marginal, but the speed given still is a big advantage (feints)
-Shield, probably at the same level as PS, depends on the str/agi ratio and the shield you plan to use (small shield users like me appreciate that skill)
-PS well, good but usually above 4-5 you will two shot most people
-IF I found it the most useless among melee skills. If you have money to spend on armor, why not. But you can be as succesful with a cheap equipment and no IF.


Note: I see shield+1h fighting as, well, fighting. I usually die against shielders with a "turtle" behavior, because my goal is to kill, and their's is not to kill but to survive (or at least they act so). So I use small and fast shields (but not the jedi orange presses, ffs), usually the knightly heather shield. It gives minimal protection to arrows, very few health points, medium armor, but is very fast. This type of shield is succesful when played in an aggresive manner (or at least it's my impression). It's very good for fighting against disadvantaging numbers.

[Galgorth]

I completely agree with the points in the OP. 4 Athletics, 4 shield skill and 3-4 weaponmaster are the most one should invest into those skills. Also, ever since the wpf nerf STR builds have been far better than AGI/balanced builds in my opinion. Having to hit someone 1-2 times versus 3-4 times makes a HUGE difference in a fight; you effectively only need to land 50% of the hits that they need to land in order to score a kill, at the sacrifice of having a slightly slower weapon swing speed.

WAIT NEVER MIND WHAT I JUST WROTE.

Pour all your points into AGI. It's good for you! Really! And after you've dumped a bunch of points into AGI/athletics/weaponmaster, please make sure you're on the opposite team as me in the Battle/Siege servers