Author Topic: Suggestion: Polearms glance when enemies are close.  (Read 5387 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Vibe

  • Vibrator
  • King
  • **********
  • Renown: 2528
  • Infamy: 615
  • cRPG Player Madam White Queen A Gentleman and a Scholar
    • View Profile
Re: Suggestion: Polearms glance when enemies are close.
« Reply #75 on: January 15, 2012, 05:03:59 pm »
0
Nah, too much of a nerf to pole.

Offline Dezilagel

  • Marshall
  • ********
  • Renown: 722
  • Infamy: 209
  • cRPG Player
  • (X) probably goes well with Nutella
    • View Profile
  • Faction: Guards, Guards!
  • Game nicks: Dezi_the_Bagel
  • IRC nick: Dezilagel
Re: Suggestion: Polearms glance when enemies are close.
« Reply #76 on: January 15, 2012, 05:31:21 pm »
0
Yawn same 15 year old rubbish I can expect :P

Random insults are always "win".

Also; This comes from a guy who doesn't back up his arguments.

I am not suggesting a total rock paper scissors overhaul, this is what you interpret from what I have said. I am not lobbying for cav, if anything I am lobbying for polearms that just dont get used. There is really no point in using anti cav spears when you can play as a 2h and be capable of dehorsing the majority of light cav.


Of course there is a point in using anti-cav spears and pikes, it's much easier to dehorse someone using one of those. And from personal experience I can say that while my poleaxe and my greatsword (on my 2h alt) are roughly equally effective vs. light cav, the poleaxe is WAY better vs. heavy cav.

"[...] when you can play as a 2h be capable of dehorsing"

As said, yes it is possible for a 2h to dehorse cav. Cav should be at a risk when charging 2h, just as any other class. It's stupid to have any class autowin vs another. Sure it's unaviodable in some cases, but we should strive for all classes being viable against all others rather than resricting actual combat to same class vs. same class.

You're looking for a class that is under played :

Pikeman, since the nerf
Hoplites have always been underused, there are many alts but they are still rare in battle
Infantry that also can throw a bit (a class I think needs to be buffed)

I am suggesting that these classes become more viable by the other classes being less effective vs well everything. I want to see this for balance, something you never have understood and i'll clue you in buddy the promoted use of classes mentions actually would put cavalry at a disadvantage. It's all the cocky rambo players like yourself that make life so easy for cav, you run off and go get your kills and when you come back half of your team are dead cause all the 2h's and aggressive polearmers ran off to do their own thing.

Again with the insults, bad week?

Anyways; I don't play to win, I play to have fun. And not standing a chance if I encounter the "wrong" class is not fun imho.

Also, there is nothing wrong with those classes (maybe apart from throwing which requires a big investment to be effective, but then I'd rather see too few throwers than too many, and there are people who do good with them), it's just that they are generally boring to play. I am often a pikeman/hoplite in strat, there you will find extensive use of these teamwork-oriented classes but in pubbies most people just want to play and have fun.

As for the 3 on 1 scenario, you havnt read properly because I'm pretty sure I mention that 'if the peasants are clever', at no point do I say auto win, just that it should be a lot harder than it is now to get out of said situation alive.

Well, getting out of a 3v1 is almost impossible vs people who are good and fairly easy vs. people who suck. And that's how it should be imo.

Finally your little scenario with 'le new player' (as you so wonderfully put it) doesnt quite work, he shouldnt lie down, he should move out of the way ... Thats quite an obvious suggestion.

And moving out of the way beats the cavman how...?

So to conclude :

- leaning to more rock/ paper / scissors scenario in fact promotes class diversity and teamwork (cavalry will be at a disadvantage)
- 3 on 1 should not be auto win, but neither should you be able to spam your way out of it
- new players should not come to you for advice cause said advice will send them to their graves

1. If you want teamwork, we have an extensive clan system and strat for that. Let the pubs be pubs. An organized team will beat a disorganized one, it's just a matter of using the tools at hand.

2. If I can spam my way out of a 3v1 that means that those three players suck and/or I got very, very lucky. There is a big advantage in ganging up on someone, but it shouldn't mean that you win even if you play horribly.

3. What is this...?

I hope this clears things up ;) I know you want a world where everyone fights with 2h's, but I really really really really dont, mostly cause it will just benefit cav as most 2h's have got huge ego's but not much to talk about in brains :P Cavalry prey on the stupid, cocky and the heroic, 2h's can be considered all of these things.

(click to show/hide)

No.

I want a world where every class can fight every other class (to as big an extent as possible, HA will never be able to lose against melee inf for example), and where skill determines the outcome (I regard good teamwork as skill too) and can get you out of any scenario.

I've seen people get out of almost impossible situations, I've seen cav rapetrains stopped by a single player (my record is 9 GK's in one min HURR-DURR), I've seen people using incredible duel techniques and I've seen other incredible feasts of skill. I really like that. That you can still play when the odds are stacked against you. That a 5v1 isn't a hopeless situation, provided you play well enough.

If you look at Warband it's always been an individual's game. You have singleplayer where you strive to become the lord of Caldaria, you have multiplayer with no other actual reward other than making a name for yourself, and getting better. C-rpg amplifies this even further with a system for having a lasting character, with your own unique outfit, style and name. But we have more teamwork-orientated stuff as well. In c-rpg for example we have clans and start for those interested in that. Don't take me wrong, I really like teamwork but pubs should be pubs and you should have a chance as an individual as well.



visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Quote from: Rumblood
You fuck, or you get fucked.
Valour Multghulis - All Krems Must Die

Offline Joker86

  • Mad & Bad
  • King
  • **********
  • Renown: 1226
  • Infamy: 324
  • cRPG Player
  • Why so serious?
    • View Profile
  • Faction: Companions
  • Game nicks: Joker86_TP
Re: Suggestion: Polearms glance when enemies are close.
« Reply #77 on: January 15, 2012, 06:17:54 pm »
0
Just to throw in my two cents:

Often I hear arguments like "if you want teamplay, join a clan", or similar.

Well, I don't have regular times for playing at all, but if I play it's usually at night, and my brother in the next room wants to sleep, so there is no way I can talk to anyone over teamspak.

And finally, there is not a single clan I see regularly enough on a server to see it's worth joining it to have teamplay most of the time.


Yet, when I connect to the server, I do the following things:

- I check which players are in which team, so I know which classes are represented by good players, and also some special things. If Torben plays cavalry, I know I have to be especially cautious after spawning, because he loves rushing to the enemy spawn and stabbing unaware or afk players.

- I check the map, whether I know it or not. If I don't know it I try to get an overview about it, to know about all the crucial locations like bottlenecks or elevated defensive positions.

- I look what my team does, and where the majority of all players run to. I run that way, too, because I believe there is relative safety in numbers. Usually I pick a good clan player with shield or a two hander to follow him and support him with my pike. In most cases they notice this and in return defend me from infantry that tries to get an easy pikeman kill.

- If the enemy team has a lot of cav I try to cover the flanks and to "shut" the access to my team at crucial "bottlenecks" for cavalry, e.g. a gap in the fence in our flank or a street between two houses or something like that.

- If things go bad, and someone decides to suggest a (resonable) tactic via chat, I confirm that I am going to follow it, to show the others that they wouldn't be alone if they followed it, too. If noone suggests one I do it myself, and I also say why (because from there our archers can shoot into their back) and I try to motivate people (if archers climbed the round tower they could make a lot of easy frags).

- After the main fight is over and I somehow managed to have survived, I don't look for surviving enemies, I look for teammates. Because this is much more important.


Now I am a pure public player, I don't play strat at all, and I don't belong to any clan nor have I ever. And still you can teamplay with me, in many cases you don't even have to say something, I simply know what's to do.

In general I don't feel like anybody special, if anything my friends and family say that I tend to underestimate myself. But how comes I've got the feeling almost noone else does the things I do? Did I understand the game wrong? Do I have some weird understanding of fun? Am I simply more intelligent that the others? (Are they stupid, Dezilagel?  :P  :wink: )

I think the game does little to support random players to do the same things like I do, although they make sense without a doubt. They don't even go against the idea of improving your skills by fighting. It's not like I would suggest to finish an Elder Scroll game just with speechcraft and the "calm creature"-spell, I am no pacifist, all I want to do is to improve the conditions under which I have to fight people.

So what am I supposed to do? I am fully conscious about some basic elements of the game others seem to be not, like NOT to charge over a great plain when the enemy team has the cav superiority. It's just a pain in the ass for me to watch this. I suffer if I see how my team fucks up things royally, without any need, as they could have put their brain on and made it much better.

But it's not only they are too lazy to think about such basic mechanics, they are unwilling to do so, they actively refuse it! It's because the game causes the impression it would be only about reflexes and muscle memory, and nothing else. Teamplay is "boring".

If the game had a few features implemented to support teamplay, players would see how it is "meant to be played", at least if this means they get the most rewards for doing so. It would be a great improvement for players like me, who can't be in a clan but still want random players being able to participate in teamplay. Unless you want to admit I am some kind of super intelligent genius you have to agree that those things are common sense, and you can expect from everyone to learn those and to be aware of them. Because once aware, you simply can't do anything that goes against those rules any more, otherwise you would feel incredibly stupid. (Most of the time, unless you are in the mood to fool around).

This post is longer than needed for this topic, because I plan to quote it every time someone gives the great advice to join a clan if I want some tactics and teamplay.
Joker makes a very good point.
î saved for eternety (without context  :mrgreen:)

Offline Lorenzo_of_Iberia

  • Baron
  • ****
  • Renown: 130
  • Infamy: 35
  • cRPG Player
    • View Profile
  • Faction: Peloponnesian League
  • Game nicks: Lorenzo_of_Numidia , PL_Hoplitai_Lorenzo
Re: Suggestion: Polearms glance when enemies are close.
« Reply #78 on: January 15, 2012, 06:29:31 pm »
0
Random insults are always "win".

Also; This comes from a guy who doesn't back up his arguments.
 

Of course there is a point in using anti-cav spears and pikes, it's much easier to dehorse someone using one of those. And from personal experience I can say that while my poleaxe and my greatsword (on my 2h alt) are roughly equally effective vs. light cav, the poleaxe is WAY better vs. heavy cav.

"[...] when you can play as a 2h be capable of dehorsing"

As said, yes it is possible for a 2h to dehorse cav. Cav should be at a risk when charging 2h, just as any other class. It's stupid to have any class autowin vs another. Sure it's unaviodable in some cases, but we should strive for all classes being viable against all others rather than resricting actual combat to same class vs. same class.

Again with the insults, bad week?

Anyways; I don't play to win, I play to have fun. And not standing a chance if I encounter the "wrong" class is not fun imho.

Also, there is nothing wrong with those classes (maybe apart from throwing which requires a big investment to be effective, but then I'd rather see too few throwers than too many, and there are people who do good with them), it's just that they are generally boring to play. I am often a pikeman/hoplite in strat, there you will find extensive use of these teamwork-oriented classes but in pubbies most people just want to play and have fun.

Well, getting out of a 3v1 is almost impossible vs people who are good and fairly easy vs. people who suck. And that's how it should be imo.

And moving out of the way beats the cavman how...?

1. If you want teamwork, we have an extensive clan system and strat for that. Let the pubs be pubs. An organized team will beat a disorganized one, it's just a matter of using the tools at hand.

2. If I can spam my way out of a 3v1 that means that those three players suck and/or I got very, very lucky. There is a big advantage in ganging up on someone, but it shouldn't mean that you win even if you play horribly.

3. What is this...?

(click to show/hide)

No.

I want a world where every class can fight every other class (to as big an extent as possible, HA will never be able to lose against melee inf for example), and where skill determines the outcome (I regard good teamwork as skill too) and can get you out of any scenario.

I've seen people get out of almost impossible situations, I've seen cav rapetrains stopped by a single player (my record is 9 GK's in one min HURR-DURR), I've seen people using incredible duel techniques and I've seen other incredible feasts of skill. I really like that. That you can still play when the odds are stacked against you. That a 5v1 isn't a hopeless situation, provided you play well enough.

If you look at Warband it's always been an individual's game. You have singleplayer where you strive to become the lord of Caldaria, you have multiplayer with no other actual reward other than making a name for yourself, and getting better. C-rpg amplifies this even further with a system for having a lasting character, with your own unique outfit, style and name. But we have more teamwork-orientated stuff as well. In c-rpg for example we have clans and start for those interested in that. Don't take me wrong, I really like teamwork but pubs should be pubs and you should have a chance as an individual as well.


The insults are hardly insults ;) you are much too insecure, teasing is all part of the forum play.

but ok :)
Your local Jav Cav

Looking for like Minded Hoplites? Look no further - http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,22631.0.html

Offline Fluid

  • Peasant
  • *
  • Renown: 2
  • Infamy: 0
  • cRPG Player
  • rises from the sands to slit your throat
    • View Profile
  • Faction: Ballers of the Round Table
  • Game nicks: Saladin_The_Icecream_Man
Re: Suggestion: Polearms glance when enemies are close.
« Reply #79 on: January 15, 2012, 08:42:42 pm »
0
It doesn't matter if it's commonplace in forums, it's still an insult to people.

Offline Lorenzo_of_Iberia

  • Baron
  • ****
  • Renown: 130
  • Infamy: 35
  • cRPG Player
    • View Profile
  • Faction: Peloponnesian League
  • Game nicks: Lorenzo_of_Numidia , PL_Hoplitai_Lorenzo
Re: Suggestion: Polearms glance when enemies are close.
« Reply #80 on: January 15, 2012, 09:19:30 pm »
0
Imagine a character dressed as such :

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


Now replay all my "insults" in a tone you would imagine said character to use :) You will notice they are all now witty accurate observations rather than bluntly thrown about insults ;)


Your local Jav Cav

Looking for like Minded Hoplites? Look no further - http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,22631.0.html

Offline Thomek

  • El Director
  • OKAM Developer
  • ***
  • Renown: 1372
  • Infamy: 481
  • cRPG Player A Gentleman and a Scholar
    • View Profile
    • Ninja Guide Wiki
  • Faction: Ninja_
  • Game nicks: Ninja_Thomek
Re: Suggestion: Polearms glance when enemies are close.
« Reply #81 on: January 15, 2012, 09:32:37 pm »
0
And imagine that this is me:

(click to show/hide)
visitors can't see pics , please register or login


That Thomeck-delay-kicking bussiness is like that asshole-retard dude that fucks your sister sometimes.

Offline Lorenzo_of_Iberia

  • Baron
  • ****
  • Renown: 130
  • Infamy: 35
  • cRPG Player
    • View Profile
  • Faction: Peloponnesian League
  • Game nicks: Lorenzo_of_Numidia , PL_Hoplitai_Lorenzo
Re: Suggestion: Polearms glance when enemies are close.
« Reply #82 on: January 15, 2012, 09:36:40 pm »
0
And imagine that this is me:

(click to show/hide)

So thats what is behind the mask... how exotic ;)
Your local Jav Cav

Looking for like Minded Hoplites? Look no further - http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,22631.0.html

Offline Dezilagel

  • Marshall
  • ********
  • Renown: 722
  • Infamy: 209
  • cRPG Player
  • (X) probably goes well with Nutella
    • View Profile
  • Faction: Guards, Guards!
  • Game nicks: Dezi_the_Bagel
  • IRC nick: Dezilagel
Re: Suggestion: Polearms glance when enemies are close.
« Reply #83 on: January 15, 2012, 09:49:51 pm »
0
I called them insults because they were not funny. If they were actually witty or had some point (2h r st00pid wololo I TROL U!) I probably wouln't have reacted.

Oh and Thomek you got me there. Now I'm all for more "teamplay"  :P
visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Quote from: Rumblood
You fuck, or you get fucked.
Valour Multghulis - All Krems Must Die

Offline Teeth

  • King
  • **********
  • Renown: 2550
  • Infamy: 1057
  • cRPG Player Sir Black Bishop A Gentleman and a Scholar
    • View Profile
Re: Suggestion: Polearms glance when enemies are close.
« Reply #84 on: January 15, 2012, 09:57:48 pm »
0
And imagine that this is me:

(click to show/hide)
Thomek is making so much sense right now.

Offline Ninja_Khorin

  • King
  • **********
  • Renown: 1067
  • Infamy: 90
  • cRPG Player A Gentleman and a Scholar
  • Zen
    • View Profile
  • Faction: Clan Ninja
  • Game nicks: Khorin/Keyoke/Lujan
  • IRC nick: Khorin
Re: Suggestion: Polearms glance when enemies are close.
« Reply #85 on: January 15, 2012, 09:59:38 pm »
0
visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Offline Dezilagel

  • Marshall
  • ********
  • Renown: 722
  • Infamy: 209
  • cRPG Player
  • (X) probably goes well with Nutella
    • View Profile
  • Faction: Guards, Guards!
  • Game nicks: Dezi_the_Bagel
  • IRC nick: Dezilagel
Re: Suggestion: Polearms glance when enemies are close.
« Reply #86 on: January 15, 2012, 10:02:03 pm »
0


Dude seriously, just join a clan and play strat.

You don't need to speak (and well, unless you're in charge of something you probably damn well shouldn't), if you can just follow orders you'll be alright.

Strat has a big "play to win"-attitude (just check the drama threads) - pubs do not. Pubs are for when people just want to fuck around and have a good time, strat is for when you want to do something more serious. I regularly do some very stupid stuff on the pub servers, most commonly I think is running right out on the plains and yell "come get me brah's" at all the cav there. I do it just because I want to try to fight my way out of it, for fun. Most of the time I eventually fail of course, but I get better.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Quote from: Rumblood
You fuck, or you get fucked.
Valour Multghulis - All Krems Must Die

Offline Lorenzo_of_Iberia

  • Baron
  • ****
  • Renown: 130
  • Infamy: 35
  • cRPG Player
    • View Profile
  • Faction: Peloponnesian League
  • Game nicks: Lorenzo_of_Numidia , PL_Hoplitai_Lorenzo
Re: Suggestion: Polearms glance when enemies are close.
« Reply #87 on: January 15, 2012, 10:07:37 pm »
0
Strat has a big "play to win" share out land equally among all peace loving clans -attitude

Couldn't resist :P There are very few fights now on strat, and most of them are in NA
Your local Jav Cav

Looking for like Minded Hoplites? Look no further - http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,22631.0.html

Offline BlindGuy

  • Marshall
  • ********
  • Renown: 996
  • Infamy: 583
  • cRPG Player Sir Black Knight A Gentleman and a Scholar
  • De oppresso liber et plus ultra.
    • View Profile
Re: Suggestion: Polearms glance when enemies are close.
« Reply #88 on: January 17, 2012, 05:29:42 pm »
0

Anyways; I don't play to win, I play to have fun. And not standing a chance if I encounter the "wrong" class is not fun imho.




o THATS FUNNY. So every shielder, lowweight 1hander and archer you come across gets to freehit you a few times? Because as you backpeddle away spamming a poleaxe faster than they can swing a 1hander, they have no chance. But then, I forgot, you play for YOUR fun, above and beyond everyone else's.
I don't know enough

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Offline Dezilagel

  • Marshall
  • ********
  • Renown: 722
  • Infamy: 209
  • cRPG Player
  • (X) probably goes well with Nutella
    • View Profile
  • Faction: Guards, Guards!
  • Game nicks: Dezi_the_Bagel
  • IRC nick: Dezilagel
Re: Suggestion: Polearms glance when enemies are close.
« Reply #89 on: January 17, 2012, 08:59:23 pm »
0


Just because you suck doesn't mean the entire shielder/archer community does.

A skilled 1h is probably more dangerous to me than a skilled 2h/pole, partly because I'm not as used to fighting them and partly because of their speed.

I could list a whole bunch of 1h whom I would consider equal/better than me and who regularly beat me up (no you're not among them).

All in all, I think someone owes someone an apology  :lol:
visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Quote from: Rumblood
You fuck, or you get fucked.
Valour Multghulis - All Krems Must Die