Poll

Do you follow tactics in cRPG?

Yes, I do whenever I can
51 (35.4%)
Yes, I often do, when the plan seems reasonable to me
57 (39.6%)
I would, but most plans seem bad to me
12 (8.3%)
I don't like to follow some people on the internet, who made them the boss?
10 (6.9%)
I don't like tactics, as it usually involves a lot of camping and it's boring
14 (9.7%)

Total Members Voted: 144

Author Topic: Do you miss tactics in cRPG?  (Read 4023 times)

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Offline Joker86

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Do you miss tactics in cRPG?
« on: December 24, 2011, 01:47:03 am »
+6
Hi there!

From a topic in the game balance subforum I got the idea to ask the community, if my impression is right, that most of the playership doesn't care for tactics, finds them boring or is simply too mentally retarded to do anything else than holding [W] and continously pressing LMB in the desperate attempt to outspam the enemy.

I for myself miss tactics heavily. I always feel physical pain when my team is losing the map with 0:3 and still simply charges towards the enemy, well knowing that this "tactic" didn't help anything the last three times. Whenever I see infantry seperating from the crowd, engaging three enemies, or archers on plain maps, trying to flank the enemy and being ridden down by cavalry, all I can do is facepalm.

I think I can blame modern life to quite a good part for this. My mother is teacher, and she is complaining that kids these days are definitely more stupid than they were some years ago, it's a fact. Some are even incapable of writing a correct date or at least their name properly. (And it's a secondary school, the kids are at least 11 years old!). In movies you can't have those shots any more where the camera is not moving for two minutes, modern people couldn't stand it. People don't read books any more, they buy audio books or the corresponding graphic novel and so on. Just take a look at what you can see on TV during the afternoon. I think this explains pretty much everything.

Face it: This has become the awful truth already.

But still I can't (and down't want to) believe that people with brain are a dying race, so I'd like to know if there are perhaps other people out there, who share the opinion that a little bit patience and waiting is neither boring nor cowardly, but simply makes sense and often leads to successs. Waiting for the enemy to come over doesn't mean you will have less to fight, and perhaps you will have to wait a bit longer before the real action starts, but on the other hand you won't spend so much time in spectator mode, if you die at all!

And if you don't follow tactics on the servers, I would like to know why. Unfortunately I have to say that those people, who have realized that tactics help, but don't follow the commands of others as they think they don't have to, because the plan is bad, or they are smart themselves and don't need anybody to tell them what to do and so on are quite a big part of the problem, as I follow the rule that everybody following a bad plan is still better than everybody follwing his own plan.

Edit: if you are missing some options please tell me, I will add them. Because of this reason I allowed members to change their vote afterwards.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2011, 01:50:14 am by Joker86 »
Joker makes a very good point.
î saved for eternety (without context  :mrgreen:)

Offline Tzar

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Re: Do you miss tactics in cRPG?
« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2011, 01:50:09 am »
+1
Herpa derpa derp derp

 :mrgreen:

But yeah good luck with gettin people to follow plans on eu1
« Last Edit: December 24, 2011, 01:51:25 am by Tzar »
I've never played a server where people split up as much or as often as on EU1.  No wonder range is having a field day.

Offline Tot.

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Re: Do you miss tactics in cRPG?
« Reply #2 on: December 24, 2011, 01:51:59 am »
+1
Shush, don't tell them. If more people had brains sieges would be a real pain the ass for us instead of walk in the park.

PS. And it's also truth that the only working "tactics" I've ever seen in Warband aside from individual cooperation between players, ie. pikeman covering the reloading xbowman, is simply infantry keeping together, aka zerg. Unfortunately, lot of people are too dumb even not to scatter. "Shieldwalls" never work and always get focus fired, flanked by archers or simply backstabbed by cav. I pretty much facepalm every time I see people trying to form a shieldwall and make themselves a one, big and stationary target for enemy ranged.

PS2. Oh, before I get mauled for not mentioning the, uh, "defending a tower" which was back in the days the only way you played Village - one, it's just camping, and two, to make it work the other team must succumb in this mind game, facepalm out of boredom and rush in.

PS3. I miss the option "When the team fails I start trying to make people do something reasonable and usually succeed" and "When the team fails (...) and usually those lemmings just keep failing until I GTX". Or something along these lines.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2011, 03:20:13 am by Tot. »
Mods compatible with cRPG. New crosshairs, textures, sounds, yay.

Offline Korgoth

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Re: Do you miss tactics in cRPG?
« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2011, 03:12:49 am »
+2
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Offline Varyag

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Re: Do you miss tactics in cRPG?
« Reply #4 on: December 24, 2011, 03:47:33 am »
+3
The OP is right. I was so dissapointed in the lack of any tactics in the last crpg year that I even went a specifically designed solo class.
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Offline Lord_Barracuda

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Re: Do you miss tactics in cRPG?
« Reply #5 on: December 24, 2011, 04:15:45 am »
+2
Yep!

I MISS TACTIC.

Behavior of most comrads remembers me on a horde of zombies....

Offline Jackelsano

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Re: Do you miss tactics in cRPG?
« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2011, 12:07:47 pm »
0
I'd love to do tactics for at least a few games. In the Australian servers, it was exactly how you put it Joker, just mindless bumkins with no self-respect and decency, charging in, spamming LMB and expecting a kill without effort. Most of the time the loser of the duel just spams "gay" over and over again. Sadly intelligence and the inner workings of the mind are sadly lost on others just because they want to drink, smoke, dress like wankers and tap all the ass they can before wishing they'd never did any of that and die of chlamydia.

Of course, I'm ranting. But I see your point, the most tactics I get in cRPG any more is watching old videos on YouTube like RipperX's Battle of the Guilds. And it annoys the living shit out of me when my team fails to the point of staying on X1 multipliers for 4 hours straight. Something should be done about this.
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Offline Angantyr

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Re: Do you miss tactics in cRPG?
« Reply #7 on: December 24, 2011, 12:19:08 pm »
+2
Join a clan.

Offline Everkistus

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Re: Do you miss tactics in cRPG?
« Reply #8 on: December 24, 2011, 12:31:19 pm »
+1
Join a clan.
This is the golden advice. I remember the glory days when Fallens did our "Fallen tactic shit" almost every round under command from our glorious general Ramses. Extremely fun stuff.

Offline ShinySpoons

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Re: Do you miss tactics in cRPG?
« Reply #9 on: December 24, 2011, 12:39:56 pm »
+1
Yep to above,

Most (possibly only) teamplay/ tactics with greater then 2-3 people I've been aprt of have come from either from my own clan or working with people in other clans who are used to and capable of doing more then zerging or camping.

Its the only thing that I enjoy out of strat battles really. Sadly, current state of strat makes large battles too rare for this :(

Offline [ptx]

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Re: Do you miss tactics in cRPG?
« Reply #10 on: December 24, 2011, 12:48:55 pm »
0
The best "tactic" that can be pulled off with random people is just sticking together in one blob, which is often counter-effective. Or a random shieldwall, which is just lulz. I am surprised that you still haven't realised this after... how long a time? If you so badly want to take part in some "tactics", join a clan.

Offline IR_Kuoin

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Re: Do you miss tactics in cRPG?
« Reply #11 on: December 24, 2011, 01:03:48 pm »
0
I do tactics all the time with some random ppl i pick up from the battlefield, great fun
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Offline Tristan

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Re: Do you miss tactics in cRPG?
« Reply #12 on: December 24, 2011, 01:45:05 pm »
0
From my point of view, unless you have trained extensively together that "herding" is more the correct word of using larger forces in warband.
The good general is able to have the most people fight the enemy at once. If he is very good he makes sure the enemy is flanked and panics (yeah, this happens in warband as well).

Actual unit tactics have problems. First and foremost they are extremely immobile. The size of forces in warbands make smaller groups of people hitting and running very effective against "units" especially combined with crush through weapons.

Shield walls are good temporary protection for gaterhing up before an engagement. The problem with shieldwall is that they look awesome and people believe hey can do all. The right position for a shieldwall is behind the hill... not on top of it.

What do work, and is extremely effective is small unit tactics aka 2-3 people working together. Often a shielder/2h working with a pike/crushthrough partner or the crushthrough supported by a piker.

So how much of this is possible on a public server?

Herding is possible if the pubs respect the general. That requires a) he has a reputation of commanding or b) he has a high score.
Small unit tactics is generally NOT possible as it requires training and communication. Often this is done on TS between clans however.

Edit:
So to answer you question: Yes I love tactics, do I expect it pubs: no?
Do I feel sad and cheated I cannot expect that?: No. I don't see how it should ever be possible and I won't say it has anything to do with "modern moral". Honestly, that is just a bunch of crap.
It is severely demeaning to the training and effort needed of soldiers to expect randomers to fight perfectly together without training.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2011, 01:48:15 pm by Aemaelius »
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Offline Teeth

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Re: Do you miss tactics in cRPG?
« Reply #13 on: December 24, 2011, 02:42:21 pm »
0
We Byzantines often stick together whenever theres a big number of our guys on, we mostly do tactical charges or defend weak spots of our team. Or we just attack somewhere and win because of a high concentration of skilled players.

Thats as good as its going to get in cRPG. If you like teamwork join a teamworking clan likes Byzantium, Mercs, or Greys on siege.

Although maybe a open teamspeak channel per server, with two subchannels for the teams, that everyone can join, might do teamwork some good. Put the TS in the server rules, maybe eventually people get used to join it. There are bound to be a few guys with some leadership abilities.

Still, this game works best for individuals. I really think the devs did a nice job in making teamwork twice as hard by implenting the earlier active attacks. Teamwork nowadays mostly ends in either you teamkilling your mates or being teamkilled.

Offline IR_Kuoin

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Re: Do you miss tactics in cRPG?
« Reply #14 on: December 24, 2011, 03:10:19 pm »
0

Still, this game works best for individuals. I really think the devs did a nice job in making teamwork twice as hard by implenting the earlier active attacks. Teamwork nowadays mostly ends in either you teamkilling your mates or being teamkilled.

Or your whole "teamwork" party gets slaughetered like we did in ninja remember? We were 6 ninjas charging together and we were all slew down, without getting a singel kill.
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