Round Shields...(Nerf thread)

[Noble Crassius]

In every weapon class there is a general rule, that which is used overly by every one - is OP. Now I just want this thinking to move to shields.

What is the one shield that EVERY shielder has? A round one, in particular the Huscarl. This beastly shield absolutely needs a nerf because honestly if you don't have a shield breaker weapon this shield simply will not break unless 3-4 people are pounding on it for an extended period of time. As it is shielders NEVER have to manual block since 1. the high tier shields almost never break and 2. Shielders can just find one on the ground almost constantly. There is no way to fix 2 so we must look at #1.

Theres always the grab an axe argument but it has the same general message as: the archer argument - grab a shield (nerfed anyways) and the cav arguement - grab a pike (cav bumped nerfed anyways). I do not want to be forced to weild an axe to even have the chance of breaking this shield.

What I want is a general HP nerf to the higher end shields , instead of making them an end all only breakable via axe I want them to simply last longer then other shields (except board/steel shield I think only they should be nearly unbreakable) . The huscarl is for all intensive purposes unbreakble, any average shielder can grab this shield and not have to worry about nearly anything.

So as a shielder myself I have to say NERF HUSCARL (and by effect the heavy round shield)!!!!
*EDIT*
We can now attack back pretty well effectively, us 1handers now rival 2h/PA in speed/damage but our ultimate defense is making us imbalanced. How many times have you've seen an above average 2hander get struck down by a newbie 1hand? It happens more often then one would think. Simply put if a 2h/PA user (no axe) comes across a 1hander of equal "skill" (knowing how the game works) usually the 1hander comes up on top.

*EDIT #2*
IF this Hp nerf does go through I do think that it should be padded by;

1. buff to smaller shields
2. Weight reduction to those that recieve the HP nerf
3. And/or a speed increase for those effected by HP nerf

This will effectively make our shield faster (making it easier to block/counter attack with) but not let them last forever.

Let's not make this a class based discussion I as a one hander am lobbying for my own OP class to be nerfed. I beg ye leave your prejudices behind and lets intellectually debate.
Let the flame begin...

[Aldwyn]

I've always been a knight style player and I never use non west european equipment, and it's sickening seeing people in plate armor scimitars and huscarl shields, things should be balanced.  There should be viable options that still allow good style.  There needs to be higher tier western style shields AND round/nord ones.

[Gorath]

And then every axe in the game would 1-hit the top tier shields like they do with any non-huscarl shield.

What would be the point of shields again?

The other arguments you put up:
Archers - get a shield = valid.  Suck it up or adapt
Cav - get a pike = valid.  Suck it up or adapt.
Shield - get an axe = valid.  Suck it up or adapt.
Or be like 90% of the rest of the 2h users and carry a barmace and crush spam.  That works too.
Throwing - get a shield = valid.  Suck it up or adapt.

I don't want to have to carry anything but my fists and a loin cloth just to kill everyone.  Nerf all armor, weapons, and shields.  Thanks.

[CpTKiL]

shield don't need nerf but "Bonus against Shield" weapons need buff

[Mustang_Sweets]

I disagree with this topic WHOLE FREAKIN HEARTEDLY, I was a polearm user forpre-patch and went to shield post patch. Shielder have it tough, they may not have to manually block but they have to foot work alot and have to time their strikes, pretty well in order to kill anything. Their animation is a shit ton slower then any other animation, and it annoyingly whiffs a lot more then that, because of the animation. Shielders can't face hug and they always have to stay in the thin line of distance for any killing ability. This is why i find this topic pointless and needing this input to end this argument.

[Gorath]

Really when it comes to seeing diversity in shields you won't get it just by nerfing round shields.  If they're still the best all around shield then they're still going to be the most seen on the field.  Rather, other shields need a buff in specific areas to make them attractive for certain playstyles and thus encouraging diversity.  The smaller heater sized shields need to be faster than they are, a real fighting shield.  The larger ones are obviously walls and so should be slower than they are and made for turtling like crazy.  Currently the popular shields perform well in every area.  Surface size, speed, durability.  The durability on them is fine, as is surface size, but the smaller shields should be even faster so that the dedicated melee fighters (opposed to turtlers) are more inclined to use them.

[Aldwyn]

why not give the fighter/small shields a buff and the giant ass round ones a nerfy.

[Mustang_Sweets]

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Really when it comes to seeing diversity in shields you won't get it just by nerfing round shields.  If they're still the best all around shield then they're still going to be the most seen on the field.  Rather, other shields need a buff in specific areas to make them attractive for certain playstyles and thus encouraging diversity.  The smaller heater sized shields need to be faster than they are, a real fighting shield.  The larger ones are obviously walls and so should be slower than they are and made for turtling like crazy.  Currently the popular shields perform well in every area.  Surface size, speed, durability.  The durability on them is fine, as is surface size, but the smaller shields should be even faster so that the dedicated melee fighters (opposed to turtlers) are more inclined to use them.

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Most agreed

[Siboire]

I mainly play as a one hander and whenever I fight a guy with enough str, my shield will "feel it"... If the fight becomes too long I can sometimes even lose my shield if there's 2 guys pounding it even without axes... On top of it, it's 6.5k so you would need to carry 2 of those if 1 is easily broke? You would not be able to afford a good weapon with a good armor set. So IMO no the huscarl is ok like it is.   

Also like Gorath said, everything as a counter. Shields have already 2 counters (and we're getting easily owned by any good player that knows how to use these weapons), there's the axes and crushtrough weapons. Go sit in front of players with str builds like Linden or Wallace and feel their mace on ur skull trough that "so-OP" huscarl shield. It won't protect you. A lot don't even need a str build to crush trough your shield. Same goes for lol-axe-spammers... they tenderize you so easily and eat you for breakfast if you can't reach them in time.

There, 2 counters for shield, isn't that enough for you? Oh and I forgot the throwers...

shield don't need nerf but "Bonus against Shield" weapons need buff

Really? Have you ever used a huscarl and saw it break under 2-3 well placed jarids, javs, wtv...? With the amount of throwers around (and the fact that almost, if not ALL good throwing weapons have a bonus vs shields) I can see my huscarl (with lvl 6 shield skill) change into dust without even getting the chancce to reach the guys on the wall in the siege servers. A single thrower can simply back peddle and needs only a couple of projectiles to ruin the huscarl... it is really NOT a god shield. 

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Most agreed

+1

[Christo]

A shield rebalance would be fine, of course everyone will pick the ugly Huscarl shield, because it's very effective.
Other shields should become more popular, I'm getting sick of all these Huscarl wannabees with scimitars, etc.

Kite, Heater, and Board shields FTW.

[WaltF4]

NERF HUSCARL

I am fine with this. It would be nice if some of the other shields were actually good though.

[Mustang_Sweets]

If it makes any of you feel better , I used a buckler instead of a huscarl.

... And then I just stopped using a shield altogether and now I'm a 1h without a shield.(It slows me Down)

[Heroin]

Everyone uses the huscarl shield because every other shield got nerfed into the dirt. People bitched and moaned about shields in general before because of the "force field" effect, and now shielders are pretty much required to use a huscarl if they don't want people shooting them in the feet/head, even with high shield skill.

I think huscarl shield is fine. It weighs 9!!!! That much weight slows you down a lot when paired with other equipment. If you have a problem with everyone running around with huscarl shields these days, campaign for the most recent shield changes to be reverted. I suspect you will have more luck.

Were this a vote, I definitely would not vote to nerf the huscarl shield. And I don't play a shielder. I play a 2hander, polearmer, and xbowman.

[UrLukur]

Round shields need a nerf, or other shields need a buff. Without forcefield, shield users who use non-round shields are hit from sides with ease, they actually have to aim their shields in proper direction. On the other hand, round shield users have it way more loose and have more margin of error when it comes to side strikes. While i'm ok with skillful usage, i feel that it should have it's up sides. Currently round shields are more durable, have better side protection and not meaningfully less speed. Where is the point in using kite shields and bucklers ? Weight ? It's anyway slowing you down considerably, and offer less protection against lolcrush. Speed ? It's only raising, not lowering it.

Overall, shields need serious revamp.

[Mattressi]

Can we all at least agree that the 'rock paper scissors' mechanic that everyone claims exists, does not, in fact, exist? Previously people would say 'shield beats archer, archer beats 2h, 2h beats shield'. As it is, shielders beat archers ifthey've got a huscarl, archers beats 2h and 2h has a chance to beat shielders IF they are using an axe or crushthrough weapon. What exactly are swords for nowadays? Pre-patch it was much easier to take on a shielder (barring the no-lifers who were level 40+) as a 2h/polearm user; the weight of their shield significantly affected their speed. As it is now, almost all shielders have similar speed to a 2h/polearm user. The only disadvantage they have is that their weapons are limited to ~100 range, but even then, 2h have the same (or less) range on any weapons that are of high enough speed that they might actually be able to beat a 1h.
Hell, even using an axe hardly works. I've spent ages with a great bardiche beating on a shielder with high shield skill and an heirloomed huscarl, the whole time with me trying to frantically manual block their shots while they cruise through on easy mode. It's inevitable that I will eventually screw up a block (especially because feinting is so much easier for a shielder) and often more than once. Then I might finally break their shield (if their team mates haven't rushed in to rape me) an they essentially turn into a 2h with full health (seriously, that side sword is really just a katana with lower slash).
If I try to crushthrough, any decently fast 1h can just spam me (no, I don't have a loomed barmace, so I have to stick to mauls).
This isn't even mentioning the good ones who turtle it up until an axe comes out, then they take off their shield to protect it and take advantage of the huge speed difference between the weapons. As soon as you put away the axe to get out a faster sword, they turtle again.

Sorry for the bitching (and the slightly off topic rant). How do other people counter decent turtles reliably 1vs1? I find that I'm decent at fighting other 2h/polearms, but as soon as I have to fight any other class it just seems they have an advantage over me (which is why I have my 'rage' characters, so I can turtle it up or throw to get a better K/D and stop hating the mod  )