[Mechanic] Katana Stab

[Zekerage]

Now, I have limited use of a Katana, and recently got a MW one, so I respecced into it. I'd say I've played roughly 3/4 gens with the katana, specifically, and one thing that I've noticed is that the Katana's Stab is more of a Hinderance than it is helpful. It's a Joke. With a MW Katana, the stab has the same damage as a base Khbyer knife... really? Now, you may be thinking that I'm lobbying for a buff in the Katana's Stab department... You're wrong.. I want the Katana's stab removed Entirely. With it being as worthless as it is now, and it bouncing/glancing/whiffing more often than not, what's the point (eh, eh, eh?!?!?)? What say you?

-Zylo

[Dexxtaa]

Why are you even picking one up.

Also, get in TS more.

[Zisa]

You want it as colourless as the nodachi is now then, it is allready nerfed to shit.

[Patricia]

You want it as colourless as the nodachi is now then, it is allready nerfed to shit.

I wouldn't say that 40c on a 102 speed tag (Or 103?) is colourless.

[Zisa]

102.

There are a few 1 handers that out range it, and some that out speed it. So ya, nerfed.

Nodachi - thrustless colourless ginsu knife used by STR nimrods in heavy armor.

[Bjord]

What's up with the random capitalization?

[Xant]

102.

There are a few 1 handers that out range it, and some that out speed it. So ya, nerfed.

Which 1handers out range it? Take the 2h bonus reach into account, too. Some 1h out speed it, but then they're much shorter and deal MUCH less damage...

[Zisa]

Which 1handers out range it? Take the 2h bonus reach into account, too. Some 1h out speed it, but then they're much shorter and deal MUCH less damage...

long espada
nordic champ
knightly arming
elite scimitar - now with more elite ghost range!
arabian cavalry
long arming
arabian guard
shashka
scimitar
arabian arming
arabian straight
practise sword (lol)

same length
side sword
nordic war
arming
simple

Take 1h ghost reach into account as well, better yet, consider for the most part a katana has to get in the opponents range to score a hit. Removing it's weak thrust would appeal to nimrods who get confused having 4 attacks, but punish those who like a thrust, even a weak one.

[Xant]

1h
Overhead = +0
Left-to-right = +0
Right-to-left = +19

2h
Overhead = +15
Left-to-right = +17
Right-to-left = +13

So derp, no. You're wrong.

1h has no ghost reach.

Katana also has a lot more damage.

[Zisa]

derp yerself, that +19 always gets me.

Where's the bonus for stab reach, curious.

And as far as pierce (stab) damage, the katana is weaker then most of those.

And was it not common knowledge that curved blades seem to have a ghost reach? Did I miss something?

You also have neglected the benefits of a shield.

When all is said and done, the longsword is likely a better weapon all around then the katana, perhaps you would like to compare it's damage to 1handers? How about comparing katana's damage to other 2 handers?

[Xant]

You need to be better if the most obvious and worst of the 1h slashes gets you every time, honestly. The reach advantage adds up to +45 against 1h's +19.

Some curved weapons hit a bit before the model (few cm for the elite scimi, double that or so for normal scimi IIRC), but you were talking about "1h", and that implies all 1h has ghost range.

I haven't neglected benefits of a shield because shields never entered the argument. Of course 1h+shield is about equal with a 2h weapon, all things considered.

The super fast weapons have less damage than the slow 2 handers, surprise surprise.

[Patricia]

Herpan' Derpan', 1h no ghostreachin',

Xant said so.

[Thucydides]

curve blades have "ghost reach" because their hitbox is a straight line, so it appears that the scim hits before the model shows it does.

not really ghost reach, but sort of .

[Zisa]

Yes, I am aware of the curved blade and the collision thingy.

You have not mentioned anything that merits the removal of thrust from katana, which is substantially worse then the popular 1handers for thrust damage.

Fight some good 1hander and:
a. you will get the so called worse attack in the face.
b. not going to be maintaining range like some spammy polearmer.

wtf is that bullshit 45 reach advantage? oh fuck off... just fuck right off if you are going to be so goddam obtuse and retarded.

You are Xant, and an idiot.

[Jarlek]

Also about the stab length bonus. The 2h has the longest stab length bonus , then comes 1h and then polearms. The 2h stab bonus is ca. +80 reach. Yes, 80 reach. This is why the greatswords and some other 2handers outreach a heavy lance. I don't remember the length bonus of 1h. Think it was +20-ish.

And yeah. A 100 length 2h and a 100 length 1h. The 2h will outreach it on left-to-right, overhead and stab. 1h wins on right-to-left. Yeah, the katana really IS shorter than those swords. Good thing it is faster than them and have the HUGE 2h animation damage sweetspot 

And Thucydides is right. The only ghost reach on curved blades are because the hitbox is straight. Not any length ghost reach. At least none confirmed.

Now, back to the original discussion.

Why to keep the katana thrust? It gives you a 4th way to feint with. Really helps a lot of people.
Why to not keep it? Well, for the most part it is useless. Especially now that the katana got magical bonus damage and does 37 cut damage. That's 1 less than a german greatsword.