Fix 2h stab

[CaptainQuantum]

Now first of all, this is not asking for a 2h buff at all, just if a 2h stab bounces it shouldn't mean you can't block for a ridiculous amount of time. The stun to be unable to block is silly, yet it is only partly the reason I ask for this. Second note is that I don't want a huge in-flux of people saying that I am lobbying for a major 2h buff, I am not.

The other reason being that it seems for 2h and many polearm users aswell, the only swings used are side swings, it makes melee in crpg very boring indeed. I would like to see the other attacks used a little more often because all I see now is backpedalling and hiltslashing. Even I myself find that once in a duel I rarely use overheads unless I am chamber blocking, so all I ask is for the other swings to be incentivised in some way. Overhead is fine in my opinion for 2h, but stabs on 2h are too risky and so I only use them when chasing down people or for horse stabbing. A change for poles to make them less side swing oriented may be needed, but from what I have seen they are fine for stab incentives. I must say I have nothing against hiltslashing, just that I am getting tired of seeing it being the only tactic in a player's arsenal. I ask of course for other people's opinions (constructive of course).

[Gravoth_iii]

Wait, whaaaat? you want a 2h thrust buff? Those thrusts are ridiculous, they may bounce if you time it wrong but they last forever and in my experience hit during almost all of the time you do the animation. And i see alot of 2h'ers using thrusts not just sideswings. So are you asking for a insta-hit thrust or what? im just saying the 2h thrusts are probably the best thrust in the game, hoplite thrusts are pretty equal tho but still.

[CaptainQuantum]

I wasn't asking for a damage buff or animation change, just if it does glance your not left with a chance if a blow comes immediately. I was just asking that the stun be reduced to that if your other swings glance or are blocked, another example of how long the recovery from a stab is that an overhead chamber of a stab is unblockable. They don't last forever either, I used to think so aswell until I got used to the duration, not forgetting how slow they are to reach optimal range leaves them easy to block or chamber block. Also 2h have the best stab in the game? The highest stab damage of 2h unloomed is 26p on a German GS (which is built for stabbing), which is equal to the pierce on a shortened spear. I do not want a damage buff, just the stun duration shouldn't give free hits. Others do use stabs, just in battle once in a group people just hiltslash until they die or win, which is not the way crpg should be heading. 

[Zekerage]

I think the animation Should be changed back to the insta-stab that it WAS. The fact that a 2h stab lasts for something like 1.5 seconds, and if it hits at any time during that, it does full damage, is ridiculous. Pertaining to how long the the stun lasts, I'd say only use it when you know you can land the stab. You don't side swing next to a wall, you don't overhand with a team mate behind you (unless you're unaware or a Dick), and you don't poke unless the situation calls for it. Apologies in advance if this post seems snobby or harsh. Not the intention.

-Zylo

[CaptainQuantum]

The problem is with "knowing" when to stab is that you can't truly "know", because the animation for the stab is so slow if it is backpedalled is hits later. So backpedalling is made even harder to beat because it nets free hits due to constant glancing from the stabs. I am guessing that the bring the instastab was a joke, because I never want that back, it was stupid. All I do want is that crpg doesn't become sideswing fests because the overhead is too slow and gets outspammed, and the stab stops you from blocking if backpedalled. Seriously go on a duel server, you will see lots of people only using hiltslashes, same for battle. I have seen many good players just realise every other tactic for melee is useless in comparison to hiltslashing, and start using only hiltslashes. I prefer crpg to native because of the balance between classes, but recently I have been seeing native to have much more fluent and diverse melee combat.

[Gravoth_iii]

Well it is only if you get a very bad timing on the thrust you wont be able to block, and like he said it deals full damage during almost all of the attack wich is pretty hard to time with some polearms actually.

[Vibe]

2h stab active time must be shortened. 2h stab is active for so long it's fucking ridiculous. No need to change it back to lolstab machinegun like it was prepatch, just make it last less time.

On the other hand, this part might be biased as I am a 2h, but damage on 2h stab is quite weak compared to polearm stab (lol poleaxe 31p stab, german greatsword 26p stab). Not to mention polestab is pretty much instant.

[CaptainQuantum]

Maybe the stab does need a damage buff, since the polearm-2h stabs are balanced in my opinion (poles have shorter stab animation but it's shorter, 2h have longer stab but higher range), so why not balance the poles damage for stab with that of the stabbing 2h. However I am not lobbying for that, just that the stun on 2h stab glance is silly, something feels really wrong about melee combat in crpg compared to native. Thats why I want to see more stabs and overheads instead of constant side swing spam, this won't fix all of the issues with melee in crpg, but will be a step in the right direction. The 2h stab does not deal damage in all stab time, its the same percentage as a polearm stab stun I am guessing. Just the dead zone for 2h stab is larger due to the animation being longer. I don't think the stab duration should be lowered too much since that either makes it reach full length faster, which is not a good idea, or you have to shorten the range of the animation, which would mean that 2h has even less versatility compared to polearms.

[Gravoth_iii]

Nerf poleaxes pierce to around 28p, so it will be more equal to the 2h ones. I doesnt feel right when a poleaxe does more thrust damage than a spear :/

[Zisa]

All stabs are too long, can be dragged to tap opponent to death, including lances from horse.

[Kato]

I think this is not about animation(that machine gun was really retarded) or damage, but about stun after your stab was blocked or glance and this need to be lowered (for all weapons not only 2h), so less cheap free hits and less random duel.

[CaptainQuantum]

All stabs are too long, can be dragged to tap opponent to death, including lances from horse.

That's just the best Taleworlds could manage for hit boxes, this happened with the overheads before chadz put floor bouncing in.

What Kato said is essentially all I asked for, but maybe the poleaxes need to be brought in line too, since they are duel weapons which can break shields, they don't need an amazing stab too. 

[Snoozer]

All stabs are too long, can be dragged to tap opponent to death, including lances from horse.

^ this is abuse by many players they use weapons that are only overhead and stab and somehow beat the shit out of everyone with spins and what not

if this was fixed i think people would not be able to kill people by tapping would be better (at least imo i hate pikes long spears and owl pikes)

and idk about the damage tweaks i would have to REALLY look at the stats of both classes.but alot of pole weapons stab surprisingly sucks ass when id does not really make sense why(maybe a nerf idk the two im thinking about is hafted blade and glaive which a lot of people hate)

[Vodner]

Nerfing the 2h stab will only serve to further reduce combat depth. You really want more 'block, attack, block, attack' snorefests?

Combat should be made deeper, not shallower. The absolute last thing we need is more weapon nerfs.

[Snoozer]

Nerfing the 2h stab will only serve to further reduce combat depth. You really want more 'block, attack, block, attack' snorefests?

Combat should be made deeper, not shallower. The absolute last thing we need is more weapon nerfs.

^yes but no one agrees on buffs either?

i hate nerf cycles as well but no one wants to buff the other classes lol