Stamina Bar Needed

[Siboire]

No, arguments that a stamina system would ruin the game stem from not wanting to see the amazing, fast paced and frantic melee combat of m&b ruined by a system that takes away player control. If you're getting spammed, you're doing it wrong, go practice until you realise that spam is useless unless backed up by excellent footwork, timing and blocking.

You can have a "fast-paced" and "frantic" melee combat with a good balanced stamina system, as I said earlier the stamina system in Age Of Chivalry is a good example it is do-able! I'm  at your argument 

[IG_Saint]

You can have a "fast-paced" and "frantic" melee combat with a good balanced stamina system, as I said earlier the stamina system in Age Of Chivalry is a good example it is do-able! I'm  at your argument 

I disagree, I didn't like it.

Anyway you're 2 arguments for a stamina system are: realism and to counter spam. I rather doubt that professional soldiers get tired of 5 minutes of fighting. And countering spam is just a matter of experience. Go play for 1000 hours and see if you still complain about spam.

[Helbrass]

Don't need a stamina bar, the game just needs to limit swing speed based on the weapon's weight.

WPF turns even the heaviest weapons into lightning fast killing machines, and IMO this shouldn't be the case. Unfortunately this isn't a problem cRPG has, it's Warband itself.

In my perfect world I'd rather see WPF have a much less visible effect on swing speed, and stay primarily a modifier for weapon damage/effectiveness.

AOC's stamina turned the game into a convoluted mess leading to lopsided gameplay and there was nothing you could do unless you played the Knight class. They may iron out the problems with their new game Battle for Agatha, though.

[Siboire]

Go play for 1000 hours and see if you still complain about spam.

As I write this, I have up to exactly 385 hours of cRPG (it's written on steam) in about 2-3 months. I'v played enough to know what are the game mecanisms.

Also, as Helbrass stated :

WPF turns even the heaviest weapons into lightning fast killing machines, and IMO this shouldn't be the case. Unfortunately this isn't a problem cRPG has, it's Warband itself.

So, a stamina bar was an idea to remove the possibility of spamming. If it isn't a good idea then what should be done to fix that issue? The stamina bar was just an idea but I'm sure there's better ones.

[Memento_Mori]

what should be done to fix that issue?

block, right after you hear the DING or CLANG then you attack, remember to be attacking the direction in-which your weapon ARC will hit the opponent the fastest.

If the opponent has a heavier weapon they have a chance to stun you, blocking twice in a row will fix this and then allow you to continue on with the dance.

If this option does not meet your fancy try this one

Your stamina bar is your health, you can swing as much as you want until you run out. If you want to stop your opponent from swinging more than you, hit them with a weapon of choice.


this is just my opinion of course, I don't believe we need a stamina bar, though it would be great, but I kinda like the idea that you are not limited by anything really than your own skill.
I really enjoy that sometimes, SOMETIMES, a 5v1 battle ends with the victor being that ONE person.

[Helbrass]

If it isn't a good idea then what should be done to fix that issue? The stamina bar was just an idea but I'm sure there's better ones.

I don't know the exact methods in play to calculate weapon speed, but IMO no human being on earth could move heavy weapons with the speed they do in Warband.

I think the devs were confused at where two hander speed comes from: their momentum. They realized these weapons could be fast but didn't take into account the wind-up time it takes to get there, and how devastating it can be to lose that momentum. So we have players that can unleash relentless attacks that can't skillfully be countered unless a considerable amount of luck is factored in. And if the weapon has crushthrough? You might as well either run, stay away, or prepare to die.

I can't really offer anything solid to please all sides of the field. But like I suggested earlier: make weapon weight the determining factor in a weapon's speed, give or take some small differences depending on the particular weapon. Two-hander damage and range more than makes up for a lower speed, and that momentum can be attained by (we hope skillfully) chaining attacks which are placed to HIT, not overwhelm.

Again this suggestion surrounds an issue that lies mostly with the core of Warband, but I think it's something that could be changed in the mod.

[MountedRhader]

How would this affect archers? fire 8 shots and out of breath? D:

[Nemeth]

There is no spammer problem, there is only bad players problem. My xbower has 44 wpf in 2h/21 agi (yeah, its kinda a gimp), using a bastard sword and noone can spam me, not even Thomek/Khorin with their agi builds and hierloomed katanas. Yes, they will kill me easily, and not only them tbh, but mainly because of theirs insane feints and my fail blocks.
If you are getting spammed, you deserve it, because you are bad/new player and can't grasp the concept of attacking immidietaly and only after blocking.

[Joxer]

How would this affect archers? fire 8 shots and out of breath? D:

Gradually lose accuracy if you continously spam arrows. Try it irl and see how it works

[bruce]

I don't know the exact methods in play to calculate weapon speed, but IMO no human being on earth could move heavy weapons with the speed they do in Warband.

Bear in mind that most twohanders were actually quite damn light weapons, and not unwieldy metal clubs, and yes you did attack fast - the slowed down "showoff" moves are just that - acting. Medieval swordsmanship wasn't certainly a static attack-block-attack-block affair; it was preferable to dodge the attack and immediately counterattack, or to counterattack in such a way that it defeats the opponent's attack.

With the wpf reduction I really don't find the speed of weapons in CRPG to be really big. What IS silly is feinting with really large weapons which seems to defy laws of physics, but attacking speed itself isn't really problematic.

Most of the time, since the wpf reduction, if you get spammed (as a 2h/polearm player) it is really failing to attack from your side, or simply attacking on the wrong side. Of course, people with enough athletics have insane movement speeds (which bothers me sometimes, especially the look im going to literally run backwards uphill type maneuvers), which makes it tricky, but still.

Of course spam does work sometimes, particularly when you need to chop a multiple non-blocking/unaware opponents, but ehhh if someone's behind you and hits you in the back of the head, it is sort of your own problem (or your teammates failing to protect your back).

[Nemeth]

Gradually lose accuracy if you continously spam arrows. Try it irl and see how it works

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HagCuGXJgUs skip to 2:20 where he starts shooting the long bow. Doesn't seem to me that he is unable to shoot anymore after spamming 10 arrows accurately into the target with LONG BOW (rougly 150+ pounds).

[Joxer]

I never said you aren't able to shoot. Btw, look at the guy how exhausted he is after that. When your muscles start to get tired you cant aim as easily and you start to get the shakes. You can still keep shooting but it wont be the same as shooting fresh.

[IG_Saint]

As I write this, I have up to exactly 385 hours of cRPG (it's written on steam) in about 2-3 months. I'v played enough to know what are the game mecanisms.

Also, as Helbrass stated : 

So, a stamina bar was an idea to remove the possibility of spamming. If it isn't a good idea then what should be done to fix that issue? The stamina bar was just an idea but I'm sure there's better ones.

If you're complaining about spamming, you haven't played enough. That isn't meant to be insulting, it's just the way it is. New and bad players have always complained about spam, older and better players have always said it's fine. Been that way since the warband beta. Also Helbrass didn't complain about spamming, he complained about the speed of heavy weapons. Personally with the level cap and the decreased amounts of wpf I think it's fine. But if the devs decide to change that, a simple multiplier to the weapon weight part of the speed equations would be all that is needed. No need to drastically change the entire combat system.

[Siboire]

If you're complaining about spamming, you haven't played enough.

heu... ok? The thing is, when I meant spamming, I meant somebody that was so fast and keeps attacking me that I don't even have the time to counter once I blocked! I don't mean noobs that just click click click but pure agi builds like beeper that can do feints with their long maul like it's a pen! Or once I blocked it, tried to counter but he was able to always swing it back at me before I could even touch him... and I had something like 164 WPF so I should have been able to counter! It is just annoying to fight agi builds that have a super long weapon, back pedalling while beating the crap out of you whenever you're trying to get to them. It's just retarded, even with the new "soft cap" for WPF, some people manage to do feints and swings with their super long weapon with the speed of light! That's what I mean by spamming.

Edit: Oh also, that same guy "beeper", was spamming so bad with a spear, once he touched me I would get stun-locked but he would hit me AGAIN before the stun-lock would wear off. He was able to hit me like 5 times in a row with me only able to move like an inch between each hit! I was spamming the right click button to freakin block with my shield but no effects at all, would still get stun locked!  That again is a good example of spamming. It should not be do-able.

[IG_Saint]

heu... ok? The thing is, when I meant spamming, I meant somebody that was so fast and keeps attacking me that I don't even have the time to counter once I blocked! I don't mean noobs that just click click click but pure agi builds like beeper that can do feints with their long maul like it's a pen! Or once I blocked it, tried to counter but he was able to always swing it back at me before I could even touch him... and I had something like 164 WPF so I should have been able to counter! It is just annoying to fight agi builds that have a super long weapon, back pedalling while beating the crap out of you whenever you're trying to get to them. It's just retarded, even with the new "soft cap" for WPF, some people manage to do feints and swings with their super long weapon with the speed of light! That's what I mean by spamming.

Edit: Oh also, that same guy "beeper", was spamming so bad with a spear, once he touched me I would get stun-locked but he would hit me AGAIN before the stun-lock would wear off. He was able to hit me like 5 times in a row with me only able to move like an inch between each hit! I was spamming the right click button to freakin block with my shield but no effects at all, would still get stun locked!  That again is a good example of spamming. It should not be do-able.

The bolded part in particulair is why I feel like you need to play more. Because that isn't possible, unless there's a huge lvl or ping difference. With good blocking, timing and footwork, you can always counter attack after you block. Against a long stunning weapon agi heavy backpeddaler, you might have to block 2 or even 3 times, before you get the positioning needed to counter attack. When fighting someone like that you need to be careful, you need to keep in mind he can stun, and that you with a 1h, need to be very close to him to be able to counter attack. And when you're that close you need to be careful you don't bounce.

Feinting with a long heavy weapon does look stupid, and like Bruce mentioned, does seem to defy the laws of physics. But a stamina bar wouldn't fix that. Making weapon weight affect feinting speed could do the trick, but I'm unsure if that's possible, think it's hardcoded.

The edit I completely agree with. Hitting someone and then hitting him again before he can do anything is retarded and should be changed. But that's a problem with the way blunt weapons stun when you hit them and the ungodly amount of speed a warspear can get with high wpf and heirlooming. Again, a stamina bar wouldn't fix it. Good weapon balance and being able to change something that's hardcoded would.