Author Topic: Steel Pick (continued discussion)  (Read 16179 times)

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Offline Engine

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Re: Steel Pick (continued discussion)
« Reply #105 on: March 15, 2011, 07:55:54 pm »
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Engine mentioned not seeing polearms that do more damage than a masterwork steel pick. I made a list of the polearms that do more damage than a masterwork steel pick against some of the most common armors. I do not understand the confusion here  :?

No, Walt. I actually said I don't see any triple heirloomed polearms that do less damage than a triple-heirloomed steel pick. Unless we're talking about triple-heirloomed peasant forks. :)


If the information in the itemized heirloom thread is correct, the generation 3 steel pick does 39 pierce. The generation 0 bec de corbin does 36 pierce, the generation 1 bec de corbin does 38 pierce damage, and the generation 2 bec de corbin does 40 pierce damage. So, a deadly bec de corbin does more damage that the masterwork steel pick.

Walt, it would be helpful if you compared triple-heirloomed items only to other triple-heirloomed items.

I support Kalam's post entirely. I need to kill armored foes, and keep moving fast. I'll leave the shieldbreaking, knockdown, and weapon range to others.

I still think this thread is in existence solely because the other two people I know of that use picks are great players. In my case I'm only sporadically awesome... When I'm not intoxicated. However I usually play intoxicated, haha.

Offline Dravic

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Re: Steel Pick (continued discussion)
« Reply #106 on: March 15, 2011, 07:58:56 pm »
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Just reduce Steel Pick and due to that all other picks speed rtng by 2. Problem solved, no more agility monsters who kill you in lighting speed.

Offline Diomedes

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Re: Steel Pick (continued discussion)
« Reply #107 on: March 15, 2011, 08:16:08 pm »
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39p is TRIPLE HEIRLOOMED. Gimme a break. To use the pick you completely give up range, it doesn't knockdown, it doesn't break shields, and it's MORE expensive than any axe and it's 662 gold less than the warhammer. You accept all those things in exchange for pure damage, speed, and a better shape. That's always been the case with picks. What more do you want?  Besides a slight cost increase or speed decrease.

The warhammer does 36b when triple heirloomed AND it has knockdown, nerf nerf!

Fixed.


I should point out that it's a logical fallacy to argue that a weapon isn't OP just because it isn't "used by more people."  I find it incredibly easy to kill people with a steel pick yet I don't use it very often.  I save it, like dessert, for certain times.  If I use the pick too frequently the manner of play becomes boring for me.  And although the pick is extremely efficient it has an essentially limited strategic capacity.   Many other players, even if they could use it quite well, don't use the pick because they find the strategy required for using it unpleasant and cheap.  My point is: the power of the pick is inherent to the pick regardless of whether or not people use it.

A possible analogy:  I live in a neighbourhood where I might get assaulted and robbed by hoodlums.  Guns are good at stopping hoodlums from attacking people.  Thus, if this logic holds, I own a gun.  But I don't.  Not because I can't use it, or because I can't own it, but because I don't want to use it.  Not only do I not want to be the sort of person who carries around a concealed weapon but because I don't want be in a position to shoot somebody. 


To re-iterate the original post of this thread: the steel pick is unbalanced.  Not horrifically, not to the point of rage quitting, not so much so that Obama places sanctions on its production and trade, but enough that it should be tweaked.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2011, 10:57:54 pm by Diomedes »

Offline Vexus

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Re: Steel Pick (continued discussion)
« Reply #108 on: March 15, 2011, 08:33:57 pm »
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To repeat myself:

Quote from: Vexus
1h should have lower damage than 2h/pole but slowly with the new weapons implemented the gap of 2h/pole damage and 1h is always getting thinner.

When steel pick has 33 pierce and bec 36, morningstar 38 only 3/5 difference.
When warhammer 31 blunt and spiked mace 34, bar mace 35 only 3/4 difference.

But people that use a shield think it's fine on having a 1h weapon dealing almost same damage of a 2h/pole weapon with which you have to manual block not right click and shield blocks you anything in front.

Higher price doesn't mean they can be very strong they still need to stay in range within the type of weapon style.

Yes they are shorter so what? you can use a shield, with the low requirements almost all weapons have it's so easy to get a high agility build since these weapons have high damage.

Offline Engine

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Re: Steel Pick (continued discussion)
« Reply #109 on: March 15, 2011, 08:50:32 pm »
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Oh sweet, the pick expert Diomedes is here to explain everything to us.

Offline Kalam

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Re: Steel Pick (continued discussion)
« Reply #110 on: March 15, 2011, 08:59:34 pm »
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Just because you use a shield doesn't mean you can't manual block. In fact, I believe you'll find that the best shielders do just as well when they change builds, since you don't really get an understanding for the timing needed as a shielder until you play a 2h or polearm first.

Every great shielder I know but one is actually better individually without the shield. The shield is for ranged spam. There's no better way to check this out than playing a shielder alt.

Anyway, if they do nerf the damage, it'll just be time for me to go back to strength and make you cry for italian sword nerfs.  :wink:
« Last Edit: March 15, 2011, 09:04:30 pm by Kalam »

Offline Vexus

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Re: Steel Pick (continued discussion)
« Reply #111 on: March 15, 2011, 09:01:36 pm »
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It doesn't have 101 speed so doesn't have to be nerfed :P

Offline ThePoopy

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Re: Steel Pick (continued discussion)
« Reply #112 on: March 15, 2011, 09:05:51 pm »
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make them get stuck in enemy body

Offline Kalam

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Re: Steel Pick (continued discussion)
« Reply #113 on: March 15, 2011, 09:06:15 pm »
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It doesn't have 101 speed so doesn't have to be nerfed :P

It will if I masterwork it. Which I might be able to one day. When I have the time.

Offline Vexus

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Re: Steel Pick (continued discussion)
« Reply #114 on: March 15, 2011, 09:10:44 pm »
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It will if I masterwork it. Which I might be able to one day. When I have the time.

Yea but heirloomed sidesword gets to 103 speed max.

Offline WaltF4

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Re: Steel Pick (continued discussion)
« Reply #115 on: March 15, 2011, 09:19:49 pm »
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No, Walt. I actually said I don't see any triple heirloomed polearms that do less damage than a triple-heirloomed steel pick. Unless we're talking about triple-heirloomed peasant forks. :)

I listed the minimum heirloom level required for the polearms to exceed the damage done by a masterwork steel pick to a player in 50 armor. Further heirlooming the polearms on that list will still leave them doing more damage than a masterwork steel pick. Polearms not on that list do less damage than a masterwork steel pick regardless of the number of times they are heirloomed. I can make a list of the 40 masterwork polearms and 27 masterwork two-handed weapons that do less damage than the masterwork steel pick if you would like.

Offline Engine

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Re: Steel Pick (continued discussion)
« Reply #116 on: March 15, 2011, 09:53:37 pm »
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Sorry, got confused and somehow got it in my head that the ones you listed did less than a MW steel pick. Actually, it's kind of funny that all of those you listed have either crushthrough, shieldbreak, or knockdown. :) Not relevant to the discussion but funny.



Offline Diomedes

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Re: Steel Pick (continued discussion)
« Reply #117 on: March 15, 2011, 11:03:14 pm »
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Sorry, got confused and somehow got it in my head that the ones you listed did less than a MW steel pick. Actually, it's kind of funny that all of those you listed have either crushthrough, shieldbreak, or knockdown. :) Not relevant to the discussion but funny.

Except the bec.

Offline MountedRhader

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Re: Steel Pick (continued discussion)
« Reply #118 on: March 15, 2011, 11:07:23 pm »
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There should be low level items and high level items with obviously better stats, as they would be used more often by rich nobles in the medieval era. Of course nobles will want better gear. My point being if you're willing to pay (upkeep) you should get a better item.

---
Back on topic I haven't seen many people running around with picks. I have not had the chance to play in a few days due to clan matters so I may be a little off.  :?

Offline Engine

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Re: Steel Pick (continued discussion)
« Reply #119 on: March 16, 2011, 12:03:05 am »
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Except the bec.
Right, except the Bec.