Armor: Effectiveness vs Melee and Ranged

[Xant]

Hell, it's like the last patch where they put pierce on bodkins but it wasn't actually in yet (so bodkins did cut and less cut than before), yet a wave of people suddenly started complaining that archery was OP and they were getting two shot.

That shit's always the most amusing. Similar thing happened when someone said that they felt like they're running faster, then everyone was sure athletics was buffed. Or that hitboxes were changed, or..

[Gisbert_of_Thuringia]

DEAR GOD ARCHERS ARE NEARING 10% of kills ON NA AND EU

But wait, if everyone respecced archers like the complainers said and yet archers are still sub 10%...

But wait, I thought arrows killed everyone in 2 shots now?

But wait,  I thought melee had no chance of killing archers who would simply murder them from range effortlessly? Hell one thread was even claiming archers were the counter to shielders

Oh dear.


This is why a majority of the CRPG community should not be allowed to comment on balance in any way whatsoever. Hell, it's like the last patch where they put pierce on bodkins but it wasn't actually in yet (so bodkins did cut and less cut than before), yet a wave of people suddenly started complaining that archery was OP and they were getting two shot.

+1


And thanks for posting that Paul.
But I bet most player will skip the numbers and continue with what they've done before

Archery killed 40% on native? o.O
OMG that must be fucking annoying

[Christo]

Archery killed 40% on native? o.O
OMG that must be fucking annoying

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b465gAg0O4I&feature=related

Multiply that by x2 because of crossbows.

[Corwin]

Actually I wish the scoreboard would show damage dealt.  That might make archers look more respectable.  My experience with archery is that it's easy to hit a lot of people 1 time each but hard to ever finish someone off (after one hit, they get really dodgy).

+1, if possible.

[Herkkutatti]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b465gAg0O4I&feature=related

Multiply that by x2 because of crossbows.

this happens to me all time in eu 1 and i dont even have a shield

[Teeth]

I feel the same as the OP. Combined with the increasing skill of the playerbase and loomed armours, the melee armour soak makes killing in melee a pretty slow process, giving the archers loads more time to shoot us, which go through your armour like its paper.

[MrShine]

[17:29] <@cmp> time to do na stats
[17:31] <@cmp> NA
[17:31] <@cmp> OneHanded 27707 18.40%
[17:31] <@cmp> TwoHanded 47132 31.29%
[17:31] <@cmp> Polearm   41007 27.23%
[17:31] <@cmp> Archery   10142 06.73%
[17:31] <@cmp> Crossbow  4485  02.98%
[17:31] <@cmp> Throwing  3716  02.47%
[17:31] <@cmp> Headshot  9827  06.52%
[17:31] <@cmp> Naked     86    00.06%
[17:31] <@cmp> Horsebump 3344  02.22%
[17:31] <@cmp> Couch     3164  02.10%
[17:31] <@cmp> this week


[17:35] <@cmp> EU
[17:35] <@cmp> OneHanded 36530 20.64%
[17:35] <@cmp> TwoHanded 47598 26.89%
[17:35] <@cmp> Polearm   50203 28.36%
[17:35] <@cmp> Archery   13331 07.53%
[17:35] <@cmp> Crossbow  6703  03.79%
[17:35] <@cmp> Throwing  2548  01.44%
[17:35] <@cmp> Headshot  12102 06.84%
[17:35] <@cmp> Naked     61    00.03%
[17:35] <@cmp> Horsebump 3549  02.00%
[17:35] <@cmp> Couch     4395  02.48%
[17:35] <@cmp> EU more skilled kthx



Ranged is already weak compared to Native. (At least) my approach is as long the ranged kill sum is below 20%(Native was about 40%), it's fine. Commence whine.

I would love to see if there is a way to determine the quantity of archers etc that make up these different groups (something like if pd>3 & archery wpf >100 for archers, if ps>3 2h & 2H wpf >100 for 2handers, etc).  The stats tell a rough picture, but without totals it's hard to say what really needs to be nerfed/buffed.

For example, who knows how many of those kills from a 2h/pole involved one shotting a target softened up by 2 or three arrows.  Or similarly is the great quantity of archers in EU partly to blame for the slightly higher killed %, or are EU archers just better, or something else?

Back on topic:
All you people care about is multipiers and making money off of archers. Archers are human! Leave Britney Archers alone!

[Leshma]

So, balance is done based on kill statistics

And for a moment I thought we're dealing with smart people here (devs).

I would so like to be muted permanently on these forums if you don't mind so I don't have to waste my precious time on the likes of you, dear so called devs.

[Gisbert_of_Thuringia]

I never said nor did anyone else that balance is done on kills.

But soooo many peopel are whining, because sooooo many people get killed by archers --> statistics say you people have a weird perception^^


MrShine if you want to know anything more about these statistics go ask Paul. I just copied them

[Dezilagel]

...thread derailed, how unexpected.

This thread was intended to be about armor and it's implications; when the devs changed the armor values they practically left out ranged.

Before patch ranged did a lot of damage, and melee did a lot of damage. You could choose to wear armor to get decent protection against both. While you could argue that the damage dealt overall was too high, at least it was fair. (btw the random glancing was a bunch of bullcrap, thx for getting rid of that)

If you wear a lot of armor nowadays you still get the same decent protection against ranged, but now it also makes you an incredible melee tank. While in theory "compensated for" by the reduction in glances, increased melee skill (= better blocking, but also a more potent offence meaning that the average player wouldn't have had much of a problem with glancing in the first place!) in combination with more looms (and let's do a recap here, which are the most potent looms...? Ranged and armor right!) makes for an increasing imbalance.

Just how effective armor should be is another thing to balance, but right now it's just too good in melee at least. (And hence too ineffective vs ranged in comparison.)



EDIT: Sorry to those of you who did not post irrelevant stuff, I had the comp running for a long time afk and thus most of this was directed to earlier posters.

(click to show/hide)

To add to the derailment:

@ Paul, Gisbert...: Those stats are useless without usage stats, and even then damage done stats would be much better. Also stats such how many of those melee kills are mounted, how many of the "headshots" are from falling etc. would imo be needed before you could draw any kind of conclusions regarding class-to-class balance based on the data.

[Tears of Destiny]

Suckers...

[GreatKali]

Armor to effective in melee?? i run around in a +8 plate armor set with at least 11 or 12 if and i can say that u not right!
79 head 82 body and 66 leg

The nerfd soak of the armor makes it impossible for me to flee out of a mob say 3 or more ppl maybe its my foult because i dont put any point in ath but in this case im dead in 90% because 3 ppl hitting u even in this loomd plate und are down in a few sec. (not to talk about how fast u down when they hack with dirty steel pricks in ur face!)  Befor the nerf i could run away because some of the hits always glanced but now u feel like a slow fat ass in a paper armor! in 1 vs 1 situation its the only thing where armor helps a lot.

What i want is to GIVE BACK THE OLD SOAK VALUES!!!!! because i pay fucking 3k+ upkeep and i want to get something from that!! damn i put 8 loom points in my armor!! and fucking archers with no loom points beat the shit put of me!!! WTF

[Xant]

its my foult because i dont put any point in ath

[Paul]

loomless "fucking archer" (15 str, 5 PD, 140 active wpf) with hornbow(24) against 82 body armor pointblank

bodkin(24+2 p):
average damage = 6
average amount of bodkins needed for 75? hp = about 12 to 13

tartar(24 + 5 c):
average damage = 2.5
average amount of tatar arrows needed for 75? hp = about 30

[Corwin]

It's not "taRtar", stop calling it like that, tartar is sauce, Tatar is name of the people and of the bow. Go look at c-rpg.net, if you don't believe me.