Author Topic: Tips for meleeing?  (Read 5997 times)

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Offline Christo

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Tips for meleeing?
« on: August 30, 2011, 04:32:49 am »
0
It just.. feels like that I'm only the shadow of my past performance in this game.
I used to be good, no, not good. Awesome at this. But now I'm only a useless burden, no matter what I do.

Many, many things happened since I learned the basics. They remained the same, but no matter how hard I try, I just end up getting steamrolled by almost anyone. I just suck. Maybe the avg. player skill increased, and that's why my methods don't work, so I'm asking for
advices from you, fellow players about melee. What should I try now?

For an example, feinting doesn't work anymore. I relied on that a lot alone. Now everyone and their mother can read them like an open book.

Cheers.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2011, 05:19:10 am by Christo »
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Offline Xant

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Re: Requesting melee lessons. [EU]
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2011, 04:36:12 am »
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Now, now, Christo. Everything will look better tomorrow. Also do you wanna come duel nao?
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Offline Christo

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Re: Requesting melee lessons. [EU]
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2011, 04:36:27 am »
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Now, now, Christo. Everything will look better tomorrow.

What do you mean?

Sure.
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Offline Formless

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Re: Tips for meleeing?
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2011, 08:40:05 am »
+2
You need to understand the basics of how melee works, and practice blocking and movement.  Noways I find that the person who moves better wins. 

BASICS OF HOW MELEE WORKS

Essentially:  The basic mechanics behind the game are very simple, basically melee works in turns:   Your turn, His turn, Your turn, His turn and so forth.

This is an important concept, that most new players do not understand and the old hands know inside out.  Many players tend to get hit when they ignore the his turn, my turn paradigm.  Basically they try to force another turn once their turn is already over.  When they try to force another turn they naturally get whacked, because its not their turn anymore.   

While feinting is nice, first understand the simple concept of his turn my turn, if understood properly it will save new or struggling players tons of frustration.

OTHER CONCEPTS

Feinting serves two purposes:

1.)   Get your opponent to misjudge the direction he should be blocking from.
2.)   Goad your opponent to attack during your synthetically extended attack phase.


Number 1 is self explanatory.  We will talk about Number 2 at greater depth:

When you synthetically extend your attack phase, you are on borrowed time.  You cannot indefinably extend your attack phase, as your opponent can judge your feints and attack you midway feint and hit you.  He will be able to hit you while your are feinting in your attack phase because you were synthetically extending your attack turn into his turn.

Another way of synthetically extending an attack turn is using movement.  This is tricky to describe you have to see it in action, a really good player to spectate to understand this is Balb.  But essentially, most new players tend to have only 2 types of movement only forward or backward and they usually  stick to that type of movement all the time.  If you watch the old hands, they move forward and backward but what makes them really good is their ability to attack people at angles and rapidly shift from one angle to another.  This does two things:

1.)  Confuses the hell out of many opponents getting them to misjudge blocks
2.)  Makes opponent players orient the wrong way giving the old hand the ability to get "free strikes in"

Another idea you should get rid of is the idea of getting wed to your immediate opponent.  In siege or in battle allot of the fighting is done in crowds, in those instances many new players tend to face and concentrate on only one opponent.  This is a mistake, your job when fighting is not to fight one guy its to win the map.  Switch opponents, after one or two attacks if you are not making progress fighting your current opponent (aka. he is still standing) try disengaging and attacking someone else, then turn back to the first guy.  Many times you will be able to hit a guy in the back and give your teammate help in getting rid of his opponent, so then he will be free to help you with yours.

When fighting two or more opponents, try getting rid of the weakest player first.  How do you know who is weakest? 
1.)  You can usually tell by the way the players move
 or
2.)  The player with the least armour.

In this way, hopefully you will be able to quickly get rid off one of your opponents and give yourself some breathing room.

Also when fighting 2 or more opponents do not let one of them flank you or get to your back.  To prevent flanking, try stringing them along, you can do this by moving in a zig zag pattern backwards. In this way it will be hard for your opponents to know which way you are going to go next and prevent them from flanking you.

Hope this helps :)

P.S

My old really long thread on melee, that talks about many of the things covered here:

http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,1545.0.html

My two favorite teaching videos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9jHcZjWw9U  <-- Very good basic tutorial
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZZnl09qBKM&feature=related  <--Shows people dying mostly due to timing problems






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Offline Gurnisson

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Re: Tips for meleeing?
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2011, 08:48:51 am »
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Footwork + holding is better than feinting, I would say.
I voted Gurnisson cause of his fucking bendy pike, I swear noone can roflcopter stab like he can.

Offline Xant

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Re: Tips for meleeing?
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2011, 09:08:57 am »
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Funny seeing how bad people were back in the ole days. That 2nd video in Formless' post, hahah... not a single person could do anything but spam like a nub. c-RPG's come a long way compared to that.
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Offline Paul

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Re: Tips for meleeing?
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2011, 09:13:41 am »
+3
Stick 'em with the pointy end.

Offline Vibe

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Re: Tips for meleeing?
« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2011, 09:14:12 am »
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Try combining feints, hold attacks and outranging. Try to invent your own funky, unreadable feints. With poles it's actually quite hard to pull off fast feints, unless it's hafted blades or staffs.

Perhaps even try spinning around and changing attack direction while you spin.

Offline Fluffy_Muffin

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Re: Tips for meleeing?
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2011, 09:17:12 am »
+1
I find the delayed release much more rewarding than feints these days
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Offline Christo

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Re: Tips for meleeing?
« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2011, 09:29:26 am »
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Tell me more about that delayed release, it's timing especially.

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Offline Fluffy_Muffin

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Re: Tips for meleeing?
« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2011, 09:49:17 am »
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Well most of the fodder have a sense of timing if a duel goes the usual way.

Your turn - you hit (they block)
Their turn - they hit (you block) and so on

However if you interupt the timing of the duel with a delayed attack you step into their turn

Your turn - you hit (they block)
Their turn - they hit (you block)
Your turn - delay
Their turn - swing attempt and get hit by your delayed attack

This will work on 80% of guys thats on the fodder servers

Or you could do a delay just by a little ammount of time, you will then interupt their anticipated block of your attack

They will anticipate the time of your next attack, if that attack doesent come (you delayed your swing for a bit) they will realease the block and commence their attack thinking that their turn has come when in fact you have stepped into their turn with your delay.

This wont work on those 20% of guys who know their stuff. You will have to combine all your skills of footwork, timing, feints, delay and a sense of your weapons lenght to beat those guys




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Offline Vibe

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Re: Tips for meleeing?
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2011, 09:58:31 am »
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Higher agi, footwork and hiltslashing also works quite well.

Offline Dezilagel

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Re: Tips for meleeing?
« Reply #12 on: August 30, 2011, 12:15:40 pm »
+3
You can discuss techniques, timing and mechanics all day long - but all of those things just comes with practice.

The most important thing (imo) when transcending from a "decent" melee fighter to a "good" one is that you develop a style that is your own.

I see way too many people who either 1. Know how to block good, and got the timing down, but really don't put any creativity into their fighting but rely on their weapon/agi to get past the opponent (these guys usually reach for the scims eventually) or 2. copy their style from others. Lots of wannabe Phyrexes/Bjords etc. running around using the exact same techiques, but worse (most often MUCH worse). These guys are never going to "be" anything, and they're exceptionally boring (and easy) to fight.

In short: As Vibe said - invent your own funky techniques, be creative.
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Offline Thucydides

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Re: Tips for meleeing?
« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2011, 02:25:17 pm »
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You can discuss techniques, timing and mechanics all day long - but all of those things just comes with practice.

The most important thing (imo) when transcending from a "decent" melee fighter to a "good" one is that you develop a style that is your own.

I see way too many people who either 1. Know how to block good, and got the timing down, but really don't put any creativity into their fighting but rely on their weapon/agi to get past the opponent (these guys usually reach for the scims eventually) or 2. copy their style from others. Lots of wannabe Phyrexes/Bjords etc. running around using the exact same techiques, but worse (most often MUCH worse). These guys are never going to "be" anything, and they're exceptionally boring (and easy) to fight.

In short: As Vibe said - invent your own funky techniques, be creative.

This ^

I find that my fights never last as long as the 2 minute+ duels that i see happen all the time. But that doesn't mean i can't kill those superblockers. Footwork and deception is probably the most important part of meleeing, feints is really easy to read if someone spams them.

Also, even holds can be countered if you're smart enough, you don't have to jsut hold your block and wait for the attack, feint to goud them to attack and block it, or try block chambering the hold, or if they hold it extra long, block chamber block the same direction as the attack.

The key to success in CRPG is Metagaming, always ask yourself why you lost this duel, or died in such and such manner. You'll find that doing this will propel you pass the noobish masses and into the moderately goodrange of players

Offline [ptx]

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Re: Tips for meleeing?
« Reply #14 on: August 30, 2011, 03:29:38 pm »
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You can discuss techniques, timing and mechanics all day long - but all of those things just comes with practice.

The most important thing (imo) when transcending from a "decent" melee fighter to a "good" one is that you develop a style that is your own.

I see way too many people who either 1. Know how to block good, and got the timing down, but really don't put any creativity into their fighting but rely on their weapon/agi to get past the opponent (these guys usually reach for the scims eventually) or 2. copy their style from others. Lots of wannabe Phyrexes/Bjords etc. running around using the exact same techiques, but worse (most often MUCH worse). These guys are never going to "be" anything, and they're exceptionally boring (and easy) to fight.

In short: As Vibe said - invent your own funky techniques, be creative.

So very true, couldn't have said it better. Nothing is worse than watching some two un-imaginative averages exchanging blow for blow for a full minute or two, before one of them does a wrong block.
Doing your own thing is the most important ability in the game right now, blocking ability stopped being the indicator of someone's skill a looooooong time ago.