Author Topic: Op Xbows!  (Read 15904 times)

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Offline Adam_Bomb

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Re: Op Xbows!
« Reply #120 on: August 13, 2011, 08:48:24 pm »
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Why? Because you can't have 150 WPF in crossbows AND 100 in 1h while you run around with 8 athl?

Uhh, yeah...along with 0 powerstrike and 0 iron flesh...
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Offline Starfucker

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Re: Op Xbows!
« Reply #121 on: August 13, 2011, 09:45:12 pm »
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This thread is full of fail and whiners.

Edit: To clarify:
1.  adding a higher strength requirement would destroy dedicated xbowmen, what does a sniper need with he-man strength?? 

 I think a lot of the whine comes from the fact that pretty much everyone can pick up a xbow to augment their kills. Its like throwing before their great nerf. A higher str requirement would have exactly  the wrong effect.

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2.  Why do we need to get rid of running xbows? I get one hit by most melee weapons, hell yeah I'm gonna run. If you don't like it, pick another target.

The only problem I see with this is that xbows really can't hit and run like archers can. Running is a decent tactic for archers. Xbows typically mix in some melee skills in their build because there is no dedicated xbow skills and they can't hit and run. I really don't see how running is more than an annoyance.

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3.  As has been said, xbows account for a very small % of all kills, why are we even having this discussion?

I have yet to see any source for this statistic. Apparently its old. It doesn't necessarily mean that xbow isn't OP, though. For one, ranged tends to have more effect on a battle than kills show. People are generally hit with ranged before they are hit with melee. This leads to a lot of damage with not a lot of kills to show. It would be a mistake to try to balance the number of kills with melee, who's job it is to finish off weakened and distracted opponent. I can say (with the high amount of certainty that comes from not having any hard statistics) that xbows account for the majority of my ranged deaths atm.

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4. The over nerf of bows seems to be what started all this nerf arbalest crap.  Bows need to be buffed back.  Not all range be brought down to uselessness.
No comment

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5.  If you really want to nerf Arbs, tweak wpf requirements, dedicated xbows don't need a nerf, there are not many of us as is.
What xbow really needs is its own skill. Something to reward dedicated xbows and diversify their builds more than "how many points should i put into melee".

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6.  If these melee whiners get the arb nerfed, I think 2 handed weapons need to lose 30% speed and power when it rains also.  Lets see if THEY mind that.
It would be kind of funny if all weapons lost speed and power in the rain. As it is, the rain makes it hard to balance xbows, as they are OP or UP based on how the server is feeling at the moment. I guess that's what happens when you try to add sporadic bits of realism to the game.



All this being said, I don't think xbows are all that overpowered. Throwing is still a bit UP and it seems that ranged balance is favoring high damaged low firing speed weapons (of which the arablast is king). So buff throwing and low damage bows, lower arablast damage a bit in favor of a higher firing speed and reward dedicated xbows over melee hybrids and everything will be better in the ranged camp. (This will do nothing to stop whining, you can't stop that).

Offline MadJackMcMad

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Re: Op Xbows!
« Reply #122 on: August 13, 2011, 10:10:00 pm »
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I have yet to see any source for this statistic. Apparently its old.

Depends if you count less than a month old.

DID I HEAR STATISTICS TIME??????????

Eu1 last week: (12.7. to 18.7.)
One handed:         47578 (25.96%)
Two handed:        51864 (28.30%)
Polearms:         51689 (28.20%)
Bow:            13918 (7.59%)
Crossbows:          7563 (4.13%)
Thrown:          1978 (1.08%)
Headshot:          6630 (3.62%)
horsebump:          1982 (1.08%) nerf cav nao
Others:            62 (0.03%)
ABSURDITY, n. A statement or belief manifestly inconsistent with one's own opinion.

Offline [ptx]

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Re: Op Xbows!
« Reply #123 on: August 13, 2011, 10:42:05 pm »
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It is not xbows themselves that are OP, it is the builds that can use them.

A somewhat average xbowman build? 
(click to show/hide)

This char can kite, can exit and enter melee at will, can fight in melee AND has VERY good ranged capability. A bit much, don't you think?

Offline MadJackMcMad

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Re: Op Xbows!
« Reply #124 on: August 13, 2011, 10:50:53 pm »
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    Power Strike: 5 - gives decent melee capability, can kill most opponents with any decent weapon

Similarly, one can cut down a redwood with a hatchet.  It will just take a while.  Using 5 powerstrike, 86 2h and a tempered langes messer, I have to hit Phyrex (who has 70+ chest armour) in excess of ten times to kill him.  I can only imagine how many hits it would take with 1 proficiency.

The 15/24 build is by no means exclusive to xbowmen, many melee builds also boast 8 athletics.
ABSURDITY, n. A statement or belief manifestly inconsistent with one's own opinion.

Offline [ptx]

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Re: Op Xbows!
« Reply #125 on: August 13, 2011, 10:53:54 pm »
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Xbowmen are generally lightly equipped, thus can run faster. Also, way to go, using phyrex as an example. The average player dies in 4-5 hits from a flanged mace (not exactly hard hitting) and 5 PS.

Offline Spawny

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Re: Op Xbows!
« Reply #126 on: August 13, 2011, 11:04:35 pm »
+1
Xbowmen are generally lightly equipped, thus can run faster. Also, way to go, using phyrex as an example. The average player dies in 4-5 hits from a flanged mace (not exactly hard hitting) and 5 PS.

And you will die in 1 hit from his weapon due to that same light armour and low hp. Mess up once with your 1h weapon or very short 2hander and you're dead.
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The problem is even if you are number 1 in NA you are still only number 467 in EU or the worst in AUS(number 17)

Offline [ptx]

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Re: Op Xbows!
« Reply #127 on: August 13, 2011, 11:09:23 pm »
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By light equipment i meant not carrying a heavy shield or a large weapon, mail-clad xbowmen still outrun melee fighters (who are mostly Str-heavy anyways). And even if they do happen to die in 1 hit in melee... That doesn't balance it out.

Offline Gnjus

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Re: Op Xbows!
« Reply #128 on: August 13, 2011, 11:18:41 pm »
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Xbows are just over-used, there's tons of D.E.D.I.C.A.T.E.D. crossbowman plus a good number of side-weapon shot-gunners and in most of the cases its firing squads of bows & crossbows who stay last, that's why people believe it to be OP. Old story of players mentality, ranged weapons are not THAT OP but just too many people want to play this game as a shooter rather then a close-combat-action. Case closed, move on.
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Offline MadJackMcMad

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Re: Op Xbows!
« Reply #129 on: August 13, 2011, 11:21:46 pm »
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By light equipment i meant not carrying a heavy shield or a large weapon, mail-clad xbowmen still outrun melee fighters (who are mostly Str-heavy anyways). And even if they do happen to die in 1 hit in melee... That doesn't balance it out.

I think it does.  You trade melee lethality for ranged lethality.
ABSURDITY, n. A statement or belief manifestly inconsistent with one's own opinion.

Offline [ptx]

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Re: Op Xbows!
« Reply #130 on: August 13, 2011, 11:23:51 pm »
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No? 5 PS is plenty of melee lethality.

Offline Miley

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Re: Op Xbows!
« Reply #131 on: August 14, 2011, 12:54:05 am »
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NEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERF!

Offline MadJackMcMad

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Re: Op Xbows!
« Reply #132 on: August 14, 2011, 01:41:32 am »
+2
No? 5 PS is plenty of melee lethality.

Take 5 ps and 1 proficiency - take a langes messer - go on a duel server, see how lethal you are against mail and plate clad melee specs - realise you overestimated the build's abilities - come on this thread and apologise.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2011, 01:44:18 am by MadJackMcMad »
ABSURDITY, n. A statement or belief manifestly inconsistent with one's own opinion.

Offline [ptx]

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Re: Op Xbows!
« Reply #133 on: August 14, 2011, 01:55:38 am »
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Try using something other than the langes messer and come back to this thread and apologise  :rolleyes:

-edit: Also, langes messer, 1 wpf, 5 PS, against a guy in mamluke mail and... hourglass gauntlets probably - 3-5 good hits. If you can't kill a guy with 5 PS and 1 wpf, then you probably just need to get better at melee, because the stats are quite enough for it.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2011, 02:23:19 am by [ptx] »

Offline RagnarLodbroke

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Re: Op Xbows!
« Reply #134 on: August 14, 2011, 02:45:42 am »
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Try using something other than the langes messer and come back to this thread and apologise  :rolleyes:

-edit: Also, langes messer, 1 wpf, 5 PS, against a guy in mamluke mail and... hourglass gauntlets probably - 3-5 good hits. If you can't kill a guy with 5 PS and 1 wpf, then you probably just need to get better at melee, because the stats are quite enough for it.

Or he could quit playing and take his BS to another place :)
I got 4 Ps, atm im going with the mace..5 or 6 hits to take down a heavy armored guy! 3-4 hits on a medium and 2 hits on a light armored dude!

It also depends on how u hit him...if ur using overheads more often u kill them faster!