More power to short 2h and polearms for better weapons variety.

[Thomek]

Paul, don't make fun of such matters. Let's forget about the Katana in this discussion, I regret i even brought it up here and now.

Take a look out there. We have a boatload of weapons not getting used.

What I'm suggesting is that we rebalance + reprice them so that there are more equally "good" weapons out there.

I know it's work, and that the general balance out there is better than ever right now, and I do understand that you may not want to mess with it..
(But that's what you like to do right? )

Just.. everyone that is a pure 2h or polearm are spamming the longest weapon they can find atm. I think in all humbleness that you undervalue weapon length in your balance calculations, and testing things in duel, not in battle may also influence these decisions.

@Rubicon
I'm also for a reworking of armors and their requirements. With only 15 STR you can use up to Heavy Plate Armor, the fourth heaviest armor we have. That means that you can have a 15/24 Ninja with 8 athletics 173wpf and Heavy Plate Armor if you so wish it. What I want is more dilemmas as of what character you are actually building and what restrictions and advantages that will give. Of course the whole upkeep and economy makes everything more complex. The ultimate dream would be that characters, very light or very heavy, couldbe equally good on the battlefield. Without "optimal" builds like we see now. 24/15 21/18 2h with Danish and Heavy Kujak. There's so many of them right now, and it is BORING and uninteresting.

[Punisher]

I see many people using shorter weapons like Heavy Bastard Sword, Longsword, Morningstar, Great Axe, Bar Mace, etc. Referring strictly to swords, shorter ones have significantly higher speed, while longer ones have higher damage and range but are significantly slower (let's compare Danish with Longsword for example, the 6 extra speed on Longsword is a huge difference, balanced out by 4 less damage and 18 less range). In addition to that there's the price argument, top tier swords cost almost three times more then the shorter ones and with the new upkeep that's a pretty noticeable difference.

Also don't forget that the new armor calculation was a significant buff for lower damage weapons by removing glances. I think internal 2H balance is better then it ever was, further nerfing on the top end swords will make them useless, just as buffing the shorter swords will only end in them being overpowered - and I'm saying this as a Miaodao/Longsword user.

As for the Katana situation, I don't think it needs a buff, just needs it's price lowered to ~5k.

[Camaris]

But you cant deny that 2h are balanced per range atm.
if a weapon is long it will be very expensive. Exceptions are perhaps Dadao and Goedendag.

I dont understand why there have to be around seven 1.20m sword in the 10k++ gold range and
none of those could be rebalanced to be cheaper.

I also dont understand why every shorter 2h is cheaper. If you say they are overpowered if they
get for example more damage then they probably are very good at the moment and should cost
a lot of money. That isnt the case. They are good but they werent overpowered with 40+ damage with
the old heirloom values. So why dont buff one of them in that damage range and nerf one long 2h back
in mid-tiers. Would give new Equipment choices for strategus too.

PS: I am only discussing about swords right now.
Morningstars for example are fine while 2h-axes are just
not worth it if you can get that pierce-damage monster.
In my opinion 2h would need a complete overall rebalance
but right now its about swords.

[Kafein]

This is an EU-only problem, but it is true the long polearm backpedallers are really a pain. NA people seem not to be doing that at all. And logically they all ended up being str builds and value speed rating more than reach. In EU, first of all many people do kickslashes and do it very well, then we have the way higher athletics average, and the rampant spam+backpedalling. When neither side uses it's reach advantage, combats are usually very long because people played this game for so long that feints and holds (atleast those of polearms, it's another story for 1h and 2h, but the slow and long versions work as good as the short and fast ones) don't really work anymore.

The so-called "OP" bec in NA is a rather weak polearm in EU because it's barely longer than a 1h. Furthermore, the pierce damage was nerfed to hell with the recent armor changes.

And finally, long weapons show their true power in group fights.

[Mala]

...

Also don't forget that the new armor calculation was a significant buff for lower damage weapons by removing glances. ...

What buff? In the end you cause less damage.

...
1 handers have the most diversity out of any other weapon class. Probably because there are 72 1-handers.
...

And how many of them are used? There are two major groups, the ones with longer range and medium speed and damage and the ones with short range, high damage and medium speed.
The rest rust in the armoury.

[Thomek]

Mala is right, there is a similar situation among 1 handers.

Just I don't know anything about it..

[RandomDude]

the flamberge crew veto this

its supposed to be the longest range 2h weapon but with the polearm animations it can lose a lot of that

a slower speed would make it almost crap

[Tears of Destiny]

Premise:
Katana needs buff.

Solution:
Buff Katana!

Discussion:
Buffed Katana is buffed.

Dev response:
Katana nerf.

So if I am reading this correctly, we should be getting another Katana nerf with the next patch, since you said Nerf not Is Fine, right? Shweet.

[Ninja_Khorin]

I was actually surprised there wasn't one last time. But back on topic.

Yes longer weapons are better in most cases. Even in duelling 2handers prefer to use the greatswords.

[Starfucker]

NA player here. Just confirming that short 2h swords are common here. If you want better weapon variety, why don't you focus on the numerous 2h axes which are never seen on the battlefield.

[Leshma]

Remove stab from all 2H swords, problem solved 

[Cyclopsided]

NA player here. Just confirming that short 2h swords are common here. If you want better weapon variety, why don't you focus on the numerous 2h axes which are never seen on the battlefield.

Would be nice to see 2h axes have some sort of advantage. They currently just are vacuums of shittiness in comparison to the 2h swords or pole arm axes.
Make stats a bit better, buff one a little more than the rest but make it's cost more. Would be nice for a top tier 2h axe.
starfucker is referring specifically to the bastard swords & Long sword being common as hell in NA. They are good, the rest of that stuff? Lol. Never seen.

[Starfucker]

Miaodao seems pretty common too. Not sure if it counts though since it's almost as long as a claymore. So that leaves four swords which could certainly use a buff (katana, two handed sword, dadao and bastard sword).

[Thucydides]

Would be nice to see 2h axes have some sort of advantage. They currently just are vacuums of shittiness in comparison to the 2h swords or pole arm axes.
Make stats a bit better, buff one a little more than the rest but make it's cost more. Would be nice for a top tier 2h axe.
starfucker is referring specifically to the bastard swords & Long sword being common as hell in NA. They are good, the rest of that stuff? Lol. Never seen.

lolz i don't know about you guys but i love the simplicity of the 2h axes. When i was 2h i spent half my playtime using the Persian battle axe (the one with 45 cut), man that thing was great. All you needed was one shot  and the weapon stun on that thing just feels so much better than my GLA

[Camaris]

Miaodao seems pretty common too. Not sure if it counts though since it's almost as long as a claymore. So that leaves four swords which could certainly use a buff (katana, two handed sword, dadao and bastard sword).

Yeah buff my twohanded sword i heirloomed it :p (if someone wants to trade it for a 2h-axe pm me *g*)