nerfed archer again

[Babelfish]

Nope, you're absolutly right,.. but still, did those arrows pierced Mail coat ? They did, right ? That's enought for what I was trying to expose.

I am sorry you didn't understand it.

My English seams to be worth than I though :-X

Dont worry, your English is fine, and you got your point across. But historical/reallife comparison of weapons and 'classes' we have in-game, are not relevant to game balance discussions, also you historians apparently got your very own subforum where you can discuss how ancient battles were fought and won.   

[Beleidiger]

I dont know but i think in this Thread is a big Miss understanding about the spd rtgn!

The speed rtgn is the speed of the arrows(that means how fast they at there goal! I am right?) not how many arrows i can shoot at an Time!

So that was the only thing i was not complain at the new Patch!

I was Fine with the damage the higher Costs and the less arrows!(Maybe thats only because i am lvl 29 so i cant say this for an low Level Char)

At all the -3 spd rtng makes it more difficult to support inmeelefights but after a bit Practice i think its not perfect but may i can Live with it!

And yes i need two hits into the chest too by an high level naked guy!


And i dont wana have an OP Archer in this game its for myself because i got an Foot soldier Class too!

[BD_Guard_Bane]

Nope, but if you make one were we can see you slashing 20 Cats in one minute, with a 1m40 steel sword and running at the same type with a 19Kg bag to simulate your armor wheight without getting exhaust and zig zigging throw a guy with a bow trying to kill you, I think you will worth your buff ;)

Apologies, but I made a serious post in a different thread and then felt unclean, and yours was the first post I saw afterwards and I felt I had to make up.

[UrLukur]

Correct me wrong, but medieval mail  and plates were better than current replicas.

Ancient warbows had problem with transferring power if i i remember right. Also i know you underestimate protective value of aketon.

What crossbows, with crane or not ?

You messed up things.

[Beleidiger]

To the Videos about Penetrating Plate and Mail i have to say nice but keep in mind they dont even shot with Bodkin arrows!

[Kalam]

Speed rating is essentially accuracy to me, since the reticule has always meant shit all.

[Bensbane]

Correct me wrong, but medieval mail  and plates were better than current replicas.

Ancient warbows had problem with transferring power if i i remember right. Also i know you underestimate protective value of aketon.

What crossbows, with crane or not ?

You messed up things.

- In fact, you're wrong about current replicas being worst. Modern middle grade steel is far better than ancient high grade steel. In terms of homogenity, percentages, mass distribution, hardness, elasticity, etc... I'll try to find an article I read a few months ago about demistifying the Japanese's Katanas (and in which they make a test to both steals) and post it in the Historian subforum, if you want to.

- Ancient warbows were all but homogen in terms of power, elasticity, etc... you only know how powerful your bow is AFTER finishing it. So you had some were low quality bows, and some very high quality ones. From what I read about ancient bows, and specialy about english Long Bows were that they had from 140 to 180Lbs of draw tension. I have (and it's impossible to have due to wood decomposition) any information about they're elasticity and recovery speed. But you can figure out, with the reported 300 yards range that they should have have a satisfying recovery speed.
That associated with their high draw tension is enought to say that far most efficient than what we do now (but only because we pruprosedly do low powered bows,.. but that's another discussion). So I would just answer that they were good enought to do they're job.

- The Hacqueton was in fact very effective, but you seem to believe that every comoner had one under his battle-stealed rusty mail coat ?

- About the Crossbow, in fact, they were a lot, I am speaking about the more powerfull ones, not one construction type in particular. Say 200Lbs to speak about a middle powered one.

- I do ? Well, I love to learn, I would be pleased if you tell me were I did and what's the correct points.


Sorry for flooding this topic, were out of context, that was just to awnser ! I'll be in Historical Subforum.

[AssPunisher]

As a HA spamming from a large distance doesn't work anymore. You score a lucky hit from time to time but its a waste of arrows overall. You really need to close in on your target to hit and be efficient.

When the target is aware of you:
ARCHERS: Going 1 on 1 against foot archer is 50-50 and you will most likey lose your horse before its over.
1H+SHIELD: Against shielders all I can do is circle and try to find a way in to horse bump then turn around and shoot while he is on the ground. Its very risky but it will work so long as my target remains passive and only hides behind a shield.
2-H/POLEARMS: seem to be the easiest but if they zig-zag you'll waste a lot of arrows on a single target. They shouldn't wonder all alone out in the open anyway but HA will also give up if the target wears a solid armor. It's not worth all the arrows for a single kill.
THROWERS: are the most dangerous imo. If you want to score hits you need to close in and they don't seem to have trouble hitting your horse close to mid range. If you fall of your horse near a thrower you are as good as dead. Its all good and no complains here. I've meet quite a few skilled throwers that even headshot me to death while riding my fast Courser.

When the target is not aware is when HA generally likes to attack. Hit and run tactics on single targets works best for us - hunting fellow Ninjas ie. .
Horse archers are not OP. We have to invest a lot in HA and Riding while losing our horse is easy. Don't see a reason for this dmg penalty really, we should do same dmg as foot archers imo.

[Beleidiger]

Wy you think only Horse Archers are Nerved? Foot Archers have the same Damage like HA!Without the + from an fast escape but instead of that higher PD and better Bow with more Damage its just Simple!

[Punisher]

When the target is not aware is when HA generally likes to attack.

That's why the HA is the most cowardly, lamest class ever.

[UrLukur]

- In fact, you're wrong about current replicas being worst. Modern middle grade steel is far better than ancient high grade steel. In terms of homogenity, percentages, mass distribution, hardness, elasticity, etc... I'll try to find an article I read a few months ago about demistifying the Japanese's Katanas (and in which they make a test to both steals) and post it in the Historian subforum, if you want to.

- Ancient warbows were all but homogen in terms of power, elasticity, etc... you only know how powerful your bow is AFTER finishing it. So you had some were low quality bows, and some very high quality ones. From what I read about ancient bows, and specialy about english Long Bows were that they had from 140 to 180Lbs of draw tension. I have (and it's impossible to have due to wood decomposition) any information about they're elasticity and recovery speed. But you can figure out, with the reported 300 yards range that they should have have a satisfying recovery speed.
That associated with their high draw tension is enought to say that far most efficient than what we do now (but only because we pruprosedly do low powered bows,.. but that's another discussion). So I would just answer that they were good enought to do they're job.

- The Hacqueton was in fact very effective, but you seem to believe that every comoner had one under his battle-stealed rusty mail coat ?

- About the Crossbow, in fact, they were a lot, I am speaking about the more powerfull ones, not one construction type in particular. Say 200Lbs to speak about a middle powered one.

- I do ? Well, I love to learn, I would be pleased if you tell me were I did and what's the correct points.


Sorry for flooding this topic, were out of context, that was just to awnser ! I'll be in Historical Subforum.

-Katans had sucky blades, you remember right. Medieval good quality mail was superior to current one, at least it was better against applying force in tests.

-Low powered ? No. With lower power required to draw the weapon. Yes.  Ancient longbows were good enough to do their job, but not really pierced through the man, and surely didn't pierced plate twice. Also, arrows used were mostly poorly manufactured.

-in iconography they have, also, they cared about their stuff.

-i am no expert in xbows, but those without crane were quite bad powerwise.

As a HA spamming from a large distance doesn't work anymore. You score a lucky hit from time to time but its a waste of arrows overall. You really need to close in on your target to hit and be efficient.

When the target is aware of you:
ARCHERS: Going 1 on 1 against foot archer is 50-50 and you will most likey lose your horse before its over.
1H+SHIELD: Against shielders all I can do is circle and try to find a way in to horse bump then turn around and shoot while he is on the ground. Its very risky but it will work so long as my target remains passive and only hides behind a shield.
2-H/POLEARMS: seem to be the easiest but if they zig-zag you'll waste a lot of arrows on a single target. They shouldn't wonder all alone out in the open anyway but HA will also give up if the target wears a solid armor. It's not worth all the arrows for a single kill.
THROWERS: are the most dangerous imo. If you want to score hits you need to close in and they don't seem to have trouble hitting your horse close to mid range. If you fall of your horse near a thrower you are as good as dead. Its all good and no complains here. I've meet quite a few skilled throwers that even headshot me to death while riding my fast Courser.

When the target is not aware is when HA generally likes to attack. Hit and run tactics on single targets works best for us - hunting fellow Ninjas ie. .
Horse archers are not OP. We have to invest a lot in HA and Riding while losing our horse is easy. Don't see a reason for this dmg penalty really, we should do same dmg as foot archers imo.

Shields are not as good against range now.

[AssPunisher]

Wy you think only Horse Archers are Nerved? Foot Archers have the same Damage like HA!Without the + from an fast escape but instead of that higher PD and better Bow with more Damage its just Simple!

I can't say for sure but it all points out to HAs having the same dmg penalty as polearms. I've had a discussion earlier where some people claim they get killed in 3 arrows wearing a 3k armor while it takes me at least 5 arrows. What I know for sure is that while riding a horse I need 2 arrows to kill naked dude and only 1 when im on foot which is another clue.

@UrLukur
That depends on a shield doesn't it?

[Leshma]

Experiment failed. Number of archers is still the same and they are still very effective with minimum skill involved.

Continue with nerfing please!

[Beleidiger]

I can't say for sure but it all points out to HAs having the same dmg penalty as polearms. I've had a discussion earlier where some people claim they get killed in 3 arrows wearing a 3k armor while it takes me at least 5 arrows. What I know for sure is that while riding a horse I need 2 arrows to kill naked dude and only 1 when im on foot which is another clue.

@UrLukur
That depends on a shield doesn't it?

So you wana get same damage + riding a Horse thats not serious or Wat??Hmmm sounds nice no no Archer needs anymore to be an Foot archer we all get Horses yay!!lol

[SalmonGod]

I've said it before and I'll say it again.

Sensible game design = effort + risk = reward

Archers currently do not step away from the far right of this equation.  Yes, I've tried playing an archer for a couple weeks.  Yes, I used to always carry a shield (before I switched to archer).  All the arguments I see from archers fighting for their class to be more powerful are complete BS.  Explain to me how archers fit into the effort + risk equation just like every other class, and I'll leave the subject alone.  Until then, I'll be playing singleplayer.