Someone introduce a market deflation.

[Entaro]

Was money wiped when the upkeep system was introduced?  If it wasn't then I would say that is the clear verdict for why prices are out of whack with us peasant folk.  Rich stay rich is right, unless you start snatchin it away.  I agree that if the only people that lose are the ones that have boat loads of cRPG gold then it's a win-win.

About that upkeep though, did people keep their old money?

[CtrlAltDe1337]

*nerdy economist voice*

Economic analysis says that if prices are going up, then either a) demand is going up, or b) supply is contracting.  Since people never run out of heirlooms, income must be going up and thus more demand.

[Quallen]

Although prices might have started there they very quickly went up to the 300k per point that has been pretty standard since then.  List prices on the market may be creeping up a little but these are items that haven't sold. If you look at high volume popular items(espada eslavona, danish GS, horn bows, bodkins) price wars between sellers have kept the items at nice "fair" prices.  Now maybe that price is still above your personal valuation of the item but around 300k per point many sellers are willing to sell and many buyers are willing to buy so its fair to many people. When items go up at these fair prices sales usually happen quickly.

Unfortunately if you aren't dealing in a high volume item since this is a very small market and a market that sees far more item for item trading than it does item for gold trading it might be a while before your desired item drops to an fair price. +1 armors are a great example of a large correction. A month and a half ago there were almost none listed and anyone selling them were convinced that armor sells for far more than weapons because its much rarer.  Well the lovely combination of these 500k +1 armors not selling and the listing of more +1 armors on the market has led to many of their list prices dropping down to the commonly considered fair price of 300k.

One thing the devs could do to facilitate faster price corrections (and thus faster trading) would be to list the last sale price and the average sale price for items.  Every time an item sells all that's left are the prices of what didn't sell so having the sale information would save alot of time on low volume items where the downward price adjustments may take a long time.

Since destiny brought up tydeus, he is actually a good benchmark for prices.  He does not have unlimited money. The faster he turns around an item the faster he frees up the capital to deal in another item and make more money.  I would actually say a active trader is more likely to set a fair price than someone who has a personal attachment to their heirloom and thus attaches a higher value to it. Current examples, +3 Broad one handed Battle axe for 925k or +1 nordic champ for 335k.  Both these items have no competition on the market and have reasonable prices set. Go and compare those to other items with no competition. If you look at +3 longswords tydeus has the lowest price listed (950k) and I'm sure if I keep looking i'll find more examples of him setting approximately "fair" prices.

I'm sorry Diomedes but price caps (if binding) only lead to low supply and non binding caps have no effect.

[Beans]

I've seen heirloom points stay steady at 450k for at least a month.

Most weapons are 300k-350k per 1+. However this REALLY varies because of all the soup de jour weapons that go in and out of style and how rare something is.

Really I think prices have been quite stable, although we might see some fluctuations because of gold being diverted to strat. Value of unused heirloom points due to less retiring maybe? I dunno. If it does happen, it's very good for new players as the more value they can get for their first and maybe only way to make some big money. Prices can go up, up, up for all I give a shit, it's better for new comers. The old gold stockpiles will be worth less, and if all prices go up, unused loom points can be sold for more, giving more buying power to new dudes to sell their first loom point.

*nerdy economist voice*

Economic analysis says that if prices are going up, then either a) demand is going up, or b) supply is contracting.  Since people never run out of heirlooms, income must be going up and thus more demand.

Economics is infinitely more complicated that freshman econ.

[Lichen]

I don't bother with the marketplace. Ridiculous prices. 'Easier' just to retire yourself and heirloom.

[Dexxtaa]

We should ask you why won't you sell any of your heirlooms? The "high" prices people offer aren't enough to get you to part with them?

I don't sell my heirlooms because I have no reason to, since I use them all on a daily basis. No one has offered me any money for my heirlooms, either (but this point is moot, since they're not for sale anyway).

[Tears of Destiny]

I don't sell my heirlooms because I have no reason to, since I use them all on a daily basis. No one has offered me any money for my heirlooms, either (but this point is moot, since they're not for sale anyway).

Likewise, I have every heirloom I want, and they are not for sell. Only way I would part with them is if you were to offer me twice their value, so I could get a replica right back.

[EponiCo]

We should ask you why won't you sell any of your heirlooms? The "high" prices people offer aren't enough to get you to part with them?

Well, the problem with that is, if you offer at the values that are advertised noone is buying them (at least not mine) so you are kind of stuck. Without selling you won't have enough money to buy what you want, but you can't go significantly under the price if you don't want massive losses.

[Ming]

Looks to me like a solid reason why upkeep is not too high: if heirlooms keep increasing in price, that suggests that at least some people have lots of gold to spend, right?

indead!

[Stabby_Dave]

We just need a solid gold sink for CRPG other than upkeep. For example you could pay a certain amount of money to repecc your char without losing xp. Or you could bypass the 7 day STF char thing for money. Just examples but there has to be a few good options.

[Wookimonsta]

for fucks sake, didnt you guys learn anything?
This is what we call tinkle down economics. The rich have lots of money and spend it, and therefore it goes to the poor people.

[Tears of Destiny]

for fucks sake, didnt you guys learn anything?
This is what we call tinkle down economics. The rich have lots of money and spend it, and therefore it goes to the poor people.

I feel like an 8 year old for bursting out laughing at your typo. I love humorous accidents.

[Dexxtaa]

for fucks sake, didnt you guys learn anything?
This is what we call tinkle down economics. The rich have lots of money and spend it, and therefore it goes to the poor people.

Problem is that is that the poor don't have heirlooms.

[Tears of Destiny]

So it takes an average of 72 hours to retire, and now we are urging people to sell their first loom?

Well screw you new guy, now it is 144 hours before you can actually get it and keep it!

[DrKronic]

@ Tears - Gold is worthless anyhow

demand is high, gold comes cheap, I see no reason for prices not to inflate, just don't pay them, also often times u can contact the person and offer a lower amount, I have gotten stuff 50-66% of listed price by contacting the seller direct, especially if u see something that no one wants usually

artificially capping prices on the market stifles trade because individuals will be less likely to sell their items they've had to retire back to 1 for, one of the early complainers on this said he WOULD not pay the price, not that he couldn't afford it............that's the essence of a market, if u actually want to sell the item, you may have to lower the offer price, if u want to buy the item at a lower price, contact the Vendor lol(the same is true IRL btw)

read my sig, not sure where I got it over 10 years ago, but it holds true, gold is essentially worthless, winning can earn u more and more, heirlooms on the other hand are not endless as they are gained discretely and come with a high price(reset to lv 1 and get raped by level 35's)

u decide not to retire, well then time to give up some of that gold to buy that other guys family jewels, capping prices only jacks newcomers more, chadz should set a retroactive tax on all income for everyones insolence

*DrK comes into character screen, has -1,668,000,000 gold*  "oops"

JUST SAY NO TO CAP AND TRADE

PS the only true deflation would be to increase heirloom rate gain, like say  +50% bonus for mains that say goes down by 5% each gen u gain while u get the weak +3% bonus {that way put more new heirlooms in hands of new players}