Author Topic: Heavy armor needs a significant nerf to run speed and wpf  (Read 5922 times)

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Offline UrLukur

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Re: Heavy armor needs a significant nerf to run speed and wpf
« Reply #45 on: January 08, 2011, 05:52:00 pm »
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Wow you arrogant ass, its about overall game balance for everyone.  I had a level 3 alt I have taken to level 20 so far and by level 7 it was easy mode.  All I had to do was 2H/thrower and strength build.  Throw javelins (1hit pierce kill with 34 damage and 3 powerthrow now 6 powerhtrow) and then charge with a 2 handed weapon and block once (many spammers now that people are lower levels so easier to 1 hit kill) and the combat speed is much slower now so far easier to block then before and you can 1-2 hit kill with a fast melee weapon.  Archers shoot me and almost all only take 5-10% of my health and I can run them down easily with 3 athletics or throw a javelin in their back as they run away from me and their drawing speed is so much slower then my throwing speed so incredibly easy.  I get to put almost all my points into strength and IF, PS and Powerthrow and have 63 health already with much stronger armor that  allows me tos urvive many cutting damage hits.
My javelins may sink a lot so you have to arc them, but they always go dead center where you aimed them with 96 wpf.

Meanwhile, my level 30 archer alt with 6 powerdraw and 162 wpf in archery has arrows go randomly shanked left and right, up and down from the aiming reticule most of the time so yes I can take 1/5 to 2/5ths of your health if I can hit with warbow and bodkin arrows and 6 pwrdrw, but because of the randomness it becomes a slow spamfest.  I fanyone charges you with any erractic movement almost impossible to hit becuase of a delayed trigger release from when you release the button thanks to the new combat animation.  Ive topped the charts twice with the archer alt when people were still uncertain about the patch and wearing lighter armor and maps heavily favored ranged (gulley down to the beach), but I have not seen any other archer in the top 3 by the end of a map with a sevrer having more then 30 people (and no I am not trying to be arrogant about this, because I have not been in top 3 nor any other archer that I can see since hotfix (unless fake archer doing mostly melee build and fighting melee) where everyone wears heavy mail or light plate and still makes money).

My xbow alt (level 13) with wpf in only xbow can shoot faster than  alongbow with hunting and light xbow and more accurately because it shoots dead center of smaller reticule.

I dont know about you, but when a lot of changes were made its easy for imbalances to be created and right now throwing and 2h heavy strength builds heavy mail armor is heavily imbalanced.  (xbows at least got some nerf, even more with hotfix - so seem more balanced)  Maybe adding an aspect of realism would help, yes you can be near impervious to cutting but you actually move lower and swing slower as a tank.

Woah, arrogant ass Keshian spoken. Now hear the response:

Aspect of realism is that armor protects very well against arrows. Aspect of realism is that infantry guy with mail or coat of plates is fast enough to catch an archer on low distances. Armor does not slow fit person much, it just drain stamina faster. There is no stamina in this game. It does not make you swing noticeably slower, it just cut off some moves.

Both archers and throwing should have 2 stage shooting.

2h and Poles own thank to very good animations. You don't need high STR to be effective with either.

From game balance perspective, it's good that effective kiting archers are way of the past, as it should be. I already state my feeling about archery adjustment, you may check my other posts to find it out.
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Offline EponiCo

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Re: Heavy armor needs a significant nerf to run speed and wpf
« Reply #46 on: January 08, 2011, 06:20:33 pm »
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If you want MAX attributes for archery/etc, then deal with it, seriously. The reason why people hybridise is to be able to take on a larger selection of classes. For instance, I sacrificed the spammability and damage of my polearm (my last gen was a pure polearmer, it was much easier with the extra wpf) and armour (with 14.5K more to play with, I could pack much better gear) to be able to shoot other ranged (and occasionally, horses, although tbh throwing is the superior choice for anti-horse work and close ranged combat in general).

Sorry, but that's bs.
With a crossbow you can hybridize easily, but thanks to the archer formula which makes you more inaccurate with every point of PD you get you can't just say, oh I got 120wpf and 6pd, I'll raise melee now. At that point you don't bother at all, make pure melee in plate and str/3 pd and shoot while blind. It is the same system that meant once the archer got over a certain level he would just agispam and get superfast, superaccurate and do still good damage. Of course this assumes the system is still in effect. And 4 ps 40 wpf is laughable against a 150 wpf twohander in plate as everyone can make.

Offline SalmonGod

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Re: Heavy armor needs a significant nerf to run speed and wpf
« Reply #47 on: January 08, 2011, 06:38:17 pm »
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I'm sure he spit his own lungs after 20 secs of action like this....

I would give longer than that.  If you put out a level of exertion on a regular basis, your stamina will adjust.  I used to work at Fedex throwing freight around for 4-5 straight hours.  I went max speed the whole time.  I single-handedly moved at least 6 tons worth of stuff (average 1500 packages a day filling 3-4 cans weighing 4-5k lbs each) over a distance of 10 feet or so, including half of it lifted over my head.  At first it was killer, but after a year or so I hardly ever broke a sweat. 

I can easily believe a person training to fight in equipment like that for at least several minutes before suffering too much.

Of course this has little to do with game balance.

Offline AirPhforce

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Re: Heavy armor needs a significant nerf to run speed and wpf
« Reply #48 on: January 08, 2011, 06:58:59 pm »
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Does anyone actually think a guy with a sword and board in the heaviest armor should be attacking as fast as the guy in the mail shirt and a pick?

Hell no. The game is about tradeoffs. Heavy armor gets you durability, it should take away from something OTHER then your wallet.

Offline Rumblood

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Re: Heavy armor needs a significant nerf to run speed and wpf
« Reply #49 on: January 08, 2011, 07:13:53 pm »
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Archery was nerfed till kiting is no longer possible, period.

Difficulty needs to be raised on all plate armor. Black Plate should require 27 STR. Weight needs to slow the wearer down to half naked peasant speed.

URLurker - Humanity has had an understanding of basic physics for centuries now. You might catch up to the rest of us. Next time you think you know what you are talking about, run a 50 yard dash, then run a 50 yard dash again while carrying a 50 lb weight. Take your time afterwards to see if you can figure out why you were slower with the 50 lb weight:rolleyes:
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Offline Wench

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Re: Heavy armor needs a significant nerf to run speed and wpf
« Reply #50 on: January 08, 2011, 09:14:27 pm »
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Since the hotfix to the patch most people ar eback to heavier armor again who were using it before and using iit all the time.  Recently on the 80 man server roughly 80% of people were wearing 14 weight armor and heavier for several hours.  The new upkeep can support this.  Would apreciate a non-upkeep related fix where wearing heavy armor actually does give a meaningful run speed and wpf nerf.  Right now many of those heavier clad folks can easily keep pace with lightly armored opponents and there is no real drawback once you ahve all the equipment you want.  This has been exacerbated by the wpf soft cap as strength heavy armor builds can still have only slightly less wpf then non-heavily armored opponents because the weight nerf right now is extremely mild.  Balance requires a more significant speed nerf.

Good idea, I support this. It's getting weird watching Kenyens in Battle Armor.
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Offline Keshian

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Re: Heavy armor needs a significant nerf to run speed and wpf
« Reply #51 on: January 09, 2011, 04:51:58 pm »
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Bump.

Really would like to see this adjusted for game balance.
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Offline Dwarden

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Re: Heavy armor needs a significant nerf to run speed and wpf
« Reply #52 on: January 09, 2011, 07:19:55 pm »
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actually i wonder one thing ... if you have multiple heavy shields and very heavy amor / weapons ...
it seems You can still move quite agile ...

i would say there should be slight increase in slow down by weight ... 25% maybe 33% for starter to see how it fare