Hand Pavise Shield vs. Heavy Round Shield

[Jona]

Not sure if this has been brought up before, but whilst perusing the shop I came across this:

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I went ahead and highlighted the better of each stat when comparing these two shields. It should be noted, however, that some people may prefer a heavier shield to a light one in order to try and (hopelessly) prevent crushthrough. Anyways, it is quite clear that the hand pavise shield is superior in nearly all regards, save for the overall size of the shield and a very minor price difference. Not only does the HPS have higher body armor AND higher hit points, it also has a significantly higher speed rating. The only main thing the heavy round shield has going for it is that it is wider, however higher shield skill can make the forcefield of the HPS larger so that it is just as effective at blocking ranged from the sides.

I always thought that the heavy round was the "slow but invincible" shield since I never really took and in-depth look at all the different shields and their stats. Now it seems there is a more durable and way faster shield available. Is it just me, or is the HPS seemingly OP?

[San]

Against 5 shield skill, your average 40c 7ps 170wpf player will destroy a +3 Hand Pavise Shield 1 hit later than a heavy round shield at ~19-20 hits.

When you compare a small durability advantage, moderate weight advantage, and massive speed advantage against a massive size difference, it's difficult for me to say which shield is better. Its durability is admittedly slightly better than the knightly heater shield by 1-2 swings/same durability against weak hits, but I imagine that the knightly heater shield would still appeal to those who don't mind the tradeoff for that weight difference.

Bucklers and kite shields benefit most from high shield skill since the forcefield expands enough to be usable against ranged while providing excellent durability and weight.

[Gurnisson]

I'd say heavy round shield is better because of the size

[Kafein]

Heavy round shield is much, much better in practice than hand pavise. The hand pavise is tiny and only really useful in melee, which makes it quite useless really, if you can block at all.

[Jona]

Against 5 shield skill, your average 40c 7ps 170wpf player will destroy a +3 Hand Pavise Shield 1 hit later than a heavy round shield at ~19-20 hits.

Huh... ok then. If that is the case then nevermind. I never really took a look at shield stats before, just used whatever shield I liked the looks of and/or what was available in the armory. It just seemed to have much better stats on paper though, which surprised me. I would have assumed that having both higher armor and a decent amount of hitpoints that it would last 2-3 more hits from an average attack. I do have some familiarity using the HPS when it first came out with only 5 shield skill, and I don't remember ranged ever being more of a problem than when I use the heavy round.


Also, can someone remind what bonus against shield means, exactly? I had heard that it deals double damage, but I also heard it ignores the body armor of shields instead. And on that note... how does body armor of shields even work? 

[Huscarlton_Banks]

As far as I can tell, shield speed doesn't really matter, so the heavy round shield has the upper hand since the durability difference is so tiny.

Bonus vs shields = raw damage is multiplied by 2, shield resistance still only applied once, so it's OP vs high resistance, low hp shields.

Shield resistance works with direct subtraction of raw damage dealt.

I forgot which reduction comes first, shield resistance or shield skill, but I'm betting it's shield resistance.

[Zanze]

If you learn how to spin and count when fighting multiple opponents, that shield width is amazing. It is something many shields lack actually...

[Taser]

Heavy round shield is pretty much the best shield overall. Its not the best shield for specific situations but if you want a good shield for pretty much any situation, heavy round won't steer you wrong.

Plus it looks cooler than the pavise.

[San]

As far as I can tell, shield speed doesn't really matter, so the heavy round shield has the upper hand since the durability difference is so tiny.

Bonus vs shields = raw damage is multiplied by 2, shield resistance still only applied once, so it's OP vs high resistance, low hp shields.

Shield resistance works with direct subtraction of raw damage dealt.

I forgot which reduction comes first, shield resistance or shield skill, but I'm betting it's shield resistance.

Thanks, that's good to know with the direct subtraction part.

[Taser]

As far as I can tell, shield speed doesn't really matter, so the heavy round shield has the upper hand since the durability difference is so tiny.

Bonus vs shields = raw damage is multiplied by 2, shield resistance still only applied once, so it's OP vs high resistance, low hp shields.

Shield resistance works with direct subtraction of raw damage dealt.

I forgot which reduction comes first, shield resistance or shield skill, but I'm betting it's shield resistance.

The bolded is why I love my board shield. Tons of hp for even those shield breakers which comes in handy when I'm surrounded. Shield can take some hits.

[Jona]

As far as I can tell, shield speed doesn't really matter, so the heavy round shield has the upper hand since the durability difference is so tiny.

Bonus vs shields = raw damage is multiplied by 2, shield resistance still only applied once, so it's OP vs high resistance, low hp shields.

Shield resistance works with direct subtraction of raw damage dealt.

I forgot which reduction comes first, shield resistance or shield skill, but I'm betting it's shield resistance.

Sweet, good to know. When talking about how speed doesn't matter, do you mean from looking at the code or just from what you notice in-game?

[Huscarlton_Banks]

Just from what I notice in-game.

I haven't noticed any difference between what melee attacks I can block/counter swing speed between a +3 buckler (106 speed) and an unloomed steel shield(61 speed). I'm not sure there are any situations where high shield speed is important, unless your ping is bad enough where you have less than 1/5th to 1/10th of a second to react.

All I've noticed from trying different shields are weight (crushthrough, movement speed), ability to block ranged attacks (size, width for multiple ranged, height for single), crossbow penetration resistance (resistance, mostly not a problem past 20 if you're not wearing cloth) and overall durability vs regular weapons and bonus vs shield weapons (hp/resistance).

There are some cosmetic things like long-ish shields and larger shields don't look like they hit with nudges properly because the range never changes, and some shields are far less ugly/clunky for use on back (hide covered shield vs leather covered shield for instance), but those can be managed by changing your models.

I still have no idea how bucklers function while sheathed, or if shield size plays any factor in back shield hits, or if it's really true that couches count as "missiles", but I'm sure those are easy things to test for people who have time/willing partners.

[Jona]

I agree that I can't really tell the difference in speed just by looking at the blocking animation (the raise-shield-to-clock animation seems to last the same amount of time regardless of what shield you use). That being said, I am fairly certain that the time it takes for the block to activate seems to differ between shields of varying speeds. I tend to be a more aggressive shielder (as is mostly anyone who isn't a newbie who can't block well or a high ping hero who blocks as soon as their attack is complete), so whenever I go to block a swing I must first raise my shield instead of having it held and ready to be hit. Since I block the majority of enemy swings within milliseconds of raising my shield, I will say that I am convinced that more often than not swings will go through my seemingly-active block when using the slower heavy round than the faster knightly heater. Compared to directionally blocking with a 1h or polearm, I feel the need to block the slightest bit sooner* with the heavy round, while blocking with my knightly heater feels just as snappy and smooth as directionally blocking (with a balanced weapon). In fact I oftentimes successfully block while still raising my shield with the knightly heater, while I cannot repeatedly do this with the heavy round. In my opinion the faster shields can block pretty much as soon as you block, while the slightly slower ones block closer to when the blocking animation is nearing completion.


*Blocking with the heavy round feels the same a 15-20 ping increase (for manual blocking), in my opinion... so I block just a tad earlier to accommodate.