Do Rational People Exist?

[Xant]

We already know pretty much all we need to know about the brain to develop AI that does the same as human brains. Neural networks are already a thing in AI, and theoretically those are universal learners. We just lack the computing power.

Source?

[[ptx]]

The current algorithms are nowhere near advanced enough for that, regardless of computing power. It's all ongoing research, afaik.

[Xant]

The current algorithms are nowhere near advanced enough for that, regardless of computing power. It's all ongoing research, afaik.

Yep. To even claim that we understood brains well enough to build a computer capable of the same thing would be to claim that we understand consciousness perfectly and thus can replicate it -- nope.

[Kafein]

Source?

A neural network can approximate any function down to arbitrary precision :
http://scholar.google.be/scholar?q=Neural+net+universal+approximator&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart&sa=X&ei=ZpyZU9WuD6G9ygPD2oGgAQ&ved=0CB4QgQMwAA

Take "human behavior" as the function you want and voilà. Anything that has a finite number of inputs and outputs can theoretically be learned by a computer.

Yep. To even claim that we understood brains well enough to build a computer capable of the same thing would be to claim that we understand consciousness perfectly and thus can replicate it -- nope.

We don't need to understand consciousness to replicate it.

[Xant]

A neural network can approximate any function down to arbitrary precision :
http://scholar.google.be/scholar?q=Neural+net+universal+approximator&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart&sa=X&ei=ZpyZU9WuD6G9ygPD2oGgAQ&ved=0CB4QgQMwAA

Take "human behavior" as the function you want and voilà. Anything that has a finite number of inputs and outputs can theoretically be learned by a computer.

That isn't how it works.

We don't need to understand consciousness to replicate it.

Yes, we do.

[Kafein]

Look I'm arguing like you now.

That isn't how it works.

Yes it is.

Yes, we do.

No we don't.

[Xant]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_consciousness

[Kafein]

What about a computer being able to mimic a human perfectly, from an outside perspective (same inputs, same outputs) ? Would that prove that the machine has "consciousness" at the level of a human ?

[Tagora]

Your thesis is wrong.  Machines are entirely rational because the languages that operate them are literal and have precise meanings.  Do you think Boolean algebra is irrational?  People, on the other hand, are quite susceptible to irrationality and bias.  The only time a program seems "irrational" to you is when the person who wrote it made an error.

[Kafein]

Your thesis is wrong.  Machines are entirely rational because the languages that operate them are literal and have precise meanings.  Do you think Boolean algebra is irrational?  People, on the other hand, are quite susceptible to irrationality and bias.  The only time a program seems "irrational" to you is when the person who wrote it made an error.

Well, no. By that logic a computer is irrational because cosmic rays can influence it.

[Leshma]

Computer is digital machine. It can run algorithm or not run it at all (due to malfunction). But what it does will not be affected by cosmic rays.

[SirCymro_Crusader]

.

[Kafein]

Computer is digital machine. It can run algorithm or not run it at all (due to malfunction). But what it does will not be affected by cosmic rays.

Yes it can.

[Leshma]

Well you got me there. Cosmic rays are broad concept.

Wouldn't that be like hacking?

[Kafein]

Well you got me there. Cosmic rays are broad concept.

Wouldn't that be like hacking?

Well no, the sun doesn't try to steal your bank account details. I guess it depends what you mean by "like".