Remove the unbalanced tag from the clearly worse 2h axes

[Kaoklai]

Two handed war axe vs Great axe: lose 0.7 weight, 4 length, 3 damage for 1 speed

Persian war axe vs Persian battle axe: lose 0.2 weight, 5 length, 3 damage for 1 speed

Bardiche vs Great bardiche: lose 0.2 weight, 14 length, 1 damage, for 2 speed

The second choice is clearly better in most cases and this is reflected in-game.  Out of all of these weapons, the only one I see with any regularity is the Great Axe, but I pretty much never see the first ones at all (except for Lumetta with the Two handed war axe).  Making the weaker versions balanced (with appropriate price tweaks) would make them much more attractive choices and would increase general in-game 2h diversity which is at the moment sorely lacking.  Instead of having 3 straight up better versions of almost the same weapon, players would be presented with the choice between length/damage/weight and very slight speed/balanced.  This would also make some degree of sense visually and "realism"-wise, as the currently worse versions are all shorter and have smaller heads. 

side note: the Persian war axe might need a 1 speed buff, otherwise the Bardiche is simply superior

[MURDERTRON]

I support this.  Anything to make axes not the worst weapons in the game, as they are now.

Also, give the balanced axes overhead while on horseback.

[owens]

What if the Persian War Axe got some more damage for its secondary mode? 33-34p or something

[Grumbs]

Yeah get rid of Unbalanced tag and reduce speed a bit. Slow + high damage but still can compete with swords / poles in duels. I don't really find unbalanced to be a fun stat, just makes fighting more awkward and glitchy

[San]

I think unbalanced is more suitable for the heavy blunt rather than the axes.

[Angellore]

Are you guys serious?

Code: [Select]

Mighty Great Axe
weapon length: 96
weight: 3.4
difficulty: 15
speed rating: 96
weapon length: 96
thrust damage: 0 pierce
swing damage: 49 cut
slots: 2
Unbalanced
Bonus against Shield
Yeah, I agree unbalanced weapons are not that funny to play with, but seriously - this axe has 49 damage at +3, with 96 speed and shield breaking ability. Adding to this 2h animations, imo best animations in game, makes it much longer than it seems to be in pure stats. This axe is simply briliant, it has ability to kill almost everyone from just 2 hits (many people from just 1). I always had crazy KDR with this axe, so the only reason not to play it non stop for me was unbalanced tag.
I think this axe is already way too good as it is, and you still want unbalanced tag being removed from it? If you want to play with axe as your main weapon, make polearmer char. Axes for 2h should be treaten just like an option, not the primary way to go!

[Grumbs]

I think we run the risk of losing any sense of class identity, we have already lost a lot so far by bluring the lines between the classes. If we do get rid of unbalanced I think 2 hand axes should still have their own unique niche, like super slow but even more damage than now or something. It is a shame to make all the classes have similar strengths/weakness in each area. It makes the combat more dull and we might as well just have 1 WPF rather than 3

[AntiBlitz]

i don't care if your idea is a good one or not, i down voted you anyways, because

(click to show/hide)

fuck you! that's why.

[Rebelyell]

I do not agree
I played a lot with 2h axes and In my opinion they are more than fine, that speed combined with dmg is just sick and greate axe is longer than katana.
Most of that axes are short if you compare them to other 2h weapons but like i said speed and damage + shield breaker make that weapon DPS kings.
Low price meake that weapons really good as utility weapons and really valid options for strat.
Pre buf Two Handed War Axe was the best 2h weapon in early strat 4 literaly good in everye situation with realy low price.
Unbalanced tag dosent really mater in most of situations because of speed of that weapon, I was able to spam most of the shielders, it just require difrent playstyle.
Greate axe is just awesome for 2h cav.

Short range(not really but yea...) and unbalanced tag is just trade off for awesome speed to dmg ratio.

I think that peoples don't use that weapon because of some strange minmaxed mentality.

[Gurnisson]

Bardiche vs Great bardiche: lose 0.2 weight, 14 length, 1 damage, for 2 speed

And useable on horseback. Big pro for the bardiche!

[MURDERTRON]

We haven't seen any increase in the use of 2h axes after the bastard sword price hike, because they are truly bad weapons.

[Kaoklai]

Are you guys serious?

Code: [Select]

Mighty Great Axe
weapon length: 96
weight: 3.4
difficulty: 15
speed rating: 96
weapon length: 96
thrust damage: 0 pierce
swing damage: 49 cut
slots: 2
Unbalanced
Bonus against Shield
Yeah, I agree unbalanced weapons are not that funny to play with, but seriously - this axe has 49 damage at +3, with 96 speed and shield breaking ability. Adding to this 2h animations, imo best animations in game, makes it much longer than it seems to be in pure stats. This axe is simply briliant, it has ability to kill almost everyone from just 2 hits (many people from just 1). I always had crazy KDR with this axe, so the only reason not to play it non stop for me was unbalanced tag.
I think this axe is already way too good as it is, and you still want unbalanced tag being removed from it? If you want to play with axe as your main weapon, make polearmer char. Axes for 2h should be treaten just like an option, not the primary way to go!

The suggestion is to remove the unbalanced tag from the Two handed war axe, persian war axe, and bardiche, not their better versions (e.g. Great Axe). 

[Angellore]

The suggestion is to remove the unbalanced tag from the Two handed war axe, persian war axe, and bardiche, not their better versions (e.g. Great Axe).

It was reply to topic discussion:

Just remove the unbalanced tag from all (2h) axes.

Yeah get rid of Unbalanced tag(...)

I think unbalanced is more suitable for the heavy blunt rather than the axes.

Anyway, about your original post:
- Bardiche is great weapon for 2h cav. Great Bardiche can't be used from horseback. //Gurnisson said this already
- Two Handed War Axe is probably best cheap weapon for Strategus. I suspect it will be used a lot there. It has 43 damage, 96 speed and costs just 2356 gold. This weapon is fine as it is. It's almost 3 times cheaper than Great Axe, and it's just slightly worse.
- Persian War Axe in current form is simply useless. But instead of removing it's unbalanced tag, I think it's "pierce" secondary mode side should be buffed. Right now it has just 29 pierce damage, which is very low. Increasing this damage to 32-33 should make it interesting option. //owens already suggested this solution as well

BTW: Looking at 2h page in shop, I have a feeling there are way too many cheap 2h axes .

[Jona]

It was reply to topic discussion:

Anyway, about your original post:
- Bardiche is great weapon for 2h cav. Great Bardiche can't be used from horseback. //Gurnisson said this already
- Two Handed War Axe is probably best cheap weapon for Strategus. I suspect it will be used a lot there. It has 43 damage, 96 speed and costs just 2356 gold. This weapon is fine as it is. It's almost 3 times cheaper than Great Axe, and it's just slightly worse.
- Persian War Axe in current form is simply useless. But instead of removing it's unbalanced tag, I think it's "pierce" secondary mode side should be buffed. Right now it has just 29 pierce damage, which is very low. Increasing this damage to 32-33 should make it interesting option. //owens already suggested this solution as well

BTW: Looking at 2h page in shop, I have a feeling there are way too many cheap 2h axes .

Yeah, 2h is easily the best class to be in strat right now (where price actually matters)... so many high cut damage weapons at a low price. The best polearms for strat are unfortunately too expensive for the early game. This is definitely reason enough to have these cheaper weapons available. Also, the 'weaker' counterparts all have a much lower difficulty rating, and that alone is not something that should be forgotten. You can have a level 30 12-17 agi build with the two handed war axe while you need at least 15 strength to use the great axe. Having so much weapon master and thus proficiency will easily make up for any unbalanced tag.