Flags in battle?

[Tydeus]

There could also be a routine that spawns cover along with the flag when no other props are around.

Yeah, that's above me at the moment. Please come back to us soon(TM).

[no_rules_just_play]

Please paul tell me ur pro and you can fix this for your beloved people :3

[Angantyr]

Random MOTF is a good new feature I think, spices up the old routines, will be great with a bit of further tinkering.

[Leshma]

There could also be a routine that spawns cover along with the flag when no other props are around.

Why don't you build a castle around the flag?

[Tydeus]

Why don't you build a castle around the flag?

If the devs that were capable of making a new game mode to replace battle were both interested enough as well as willing/able to devote the time necessary to the project, it would probably be done. That's just not what we have at the moment, so we're(I) am stuck making minor alterations to MotF because the only other way to make ranged have less of an effect on the round, is to nerf them significantly.

Rather than dictating exactly how players are able to play by weapon requirements or stat altercations, it's better(less intrusive) to just reduce the impact they have on the outcome of a round. Essentially it's the same end result, except it doesn't remove player choice, only limits the rewards for a few specific choices.

[Leshma]

Or... you could remove shield skill, give everyone free respec and make all shields free to use, only balancing their cost based on weight and coverage. That would totally piss off archers.

Yeah, sounds stupid and is pure madness, but no more than what you're doing with battle mode.

[Ronin]

Yeah, sounds stupid and is pure madness, but no more than what you're doing with battle mode.

2-3 shield skill is really really enough to use a decent shield now, thanks to the shield resistance buff. I had 3 shield skill on my character before this buff, I really liked it

Conjuring some objects around flag, sounds a bit stupid imo.

[JackieChan]

As i said, its just turning battle mod into some sort of siege. Wrong way of fixing the range problem. At least Leshmas idea makes more sense.

[Leshma]

2-3 shield skill is really really enough to use a decent shield now, thanks to the shield resistance buff. I had 3 shield skill on my character before this buff, I really liked it

No, I won't put any point into shield. Do you know why? If anyone can grab a damn crossbow and use it (with bad accuracy but that's not the point) then everyone should be able to grab a shield and use it to protect himself. Shield skill has to be the dumbest stat in this mod and it's major source of abuse which can be seen on examples such as kinngrimm or those 13 shield skill silly builds.

[phnxhdsn]

I just hope first round insta-flags gets work-shopped and changed, because in the first round the teams are always just random right? so sometimes it has spawned all the ranged to one side and all the melee shielders to the other side, guess which side went to the flags and got an instant victory..
I like the flags too because it forces players to change their strategy and not just do the same thing every round but it needs to improved in some ways, for instance i believe bigger flag radius will greatly improve this!

Edit: Also I never get any time to get valour in the first round because of it always being so one sided nowadays because the team to win the melee for flags is decided instantly and then I lose my x5   Point I'm making is first round is always 50/50 on whether your getting a multiplier

[Sandersson Jankins]

There could also be a routine that spawns cover along with the flag when no other props are around.

Need some horse-drawn carriages to spawn for cover, simply so I can holler "CIRCLE THE WAGONS, THE INJUNS ARE ATTACKING" over teamspeak.

Anyway, I'm a fan of the MoTF change. Whether or not it is an objectively good or well implemented feature, I like how its been working.

[Tydeus]

You say mod, but shield skill is hardcoded. So really, it's just the game itself. If we could easily change shield skill, it would have been done a long time ago.

I already doubled the radius and changed the first round MotF to spawn 30 seconds into the round(for the next patch). Any other suggestions?

[Johammeth]

Any other suggestions?

Two things:

1.

As others have said, variety is what will keep the gamemode fresh... mostly by preventing the feeling of "hurr hurr, it's this map just go camp the ____."

The most obvious route is semi-random flag spawns: Each map has a dozen or so locations and each round the flag randomly selects one location to spawn in.

This approach would be better implemented over time. Adding in 1 new location per map every now and again will keep the "new car smell" around a lot longer than an initial dump of 12 flag spots that will all get stale eventually.

--

Alternatively, full random flag spawns could be pretty cool... but also potentially broken and infuriating.

(click to show/hide)

I have no idea how now MnB is put together (and hence if it is possible), but this would be awesome:

-At the start of the round, the game generates random X, Y coordinates on the map. (top down perspective)
-From these coordinates, it finds where the X, Y line intersects with the ground. Now we have X, Y, Z coordinates and a potential flag Locations.
-All we need is a couple of checks to safeguard against broken flagspawns:
-Is the Location inside the field of play? No? Restart the whole process.
-Is the Location inside of a prop? Yes? Restart the whole process.

It's probably impractical, and it's definitely volatile, but volatile is fun when it doesn't blow up in your face!

2. Killing an opponent on the flag lowers their flag a little bit.

While your physical presence on the flags will halt the enemy capture, killing an enemy in this zone will also knock back their progress a little bit (something small, say 5-10% ... numbers will need to be tweaked)

This would only really be felt in the "I'm stopping the cap, get your asses over here guys!" type situation where one hero is outnumbered on flags and waiting for backup. Sure, he can just turtle... but if he snags a couple of kills, he can earn a few extra seconds for his teammates to show up after he dies.

There's now a bigger choice between passively halting the enemy capture, and aggressively setting them back.

I don't think we have to worry about this affecting "big" fights on the flags (1st round instaflags are going the way of the dodo anyway, yes?).

-Rewards aggression
-Makes kills on the flag feel better ("Well, I bought you guys an extra 3 seconds. Good luck!")
-BIG PLAYS BIG PLAYS BIG PLAYS

[Akynos]

No, I won't put any point into shield. Do you know why? If anyone can grab a damn crossbow and use it (with bad accuracy but that's not the point) then everyone should be able to grab a shield and use it to protect himself. Shield skill has to be the dumbest stat in this mod and it's major source of abuse which can be seen on examples such as kinngrimm or those 13 shield skill silly builds.

I'll see your Shield skill and raise you a ''You're too damn incompetent to throw that axe''

[Sandersson Jankins]

Two things:

1.

As others have said, variety is what will keep the gamemode fresh... mostly by preventing the feeling of "hurr hurr, it's this map just go camp the ____."

The most obvious route is semi-random flag spawns: Each map has a dozen or so locations and each round the flag randomly selects one location to spawn in.

This approach would be better implemented over time. Adding in 1 new location per map every now and again will keep the "new car smell" around a lot longer than an initial dump of 12 flag spots that will all get stale eventually.

--

Alternatively, full random flag spawns could be pretty cool... but also potentially broken and infuriating.

(click to show/hide)

I have no idea how now MnB is put together (and hence if it is possible), but this would be awesome:

-At the start of the round, the game generates random X, Y coordinates on the map. (top down perspective)
-From these coordinates, it finds where the X, Y line intersects with the ground. Now we have X, Y, Z coordinates and a potential flag Locations.
-All we need is a couple of checks to safeguard against broken flagspawns:
-Is the Location inside the field of play? No? Restart the whole process.
-Is the Location inside of a prop? Yes? Restart the whole process.

It's probably impractical, and it's definitely volatile, but volatile is fun when it doesn't blow up in your face!

2. Killing an opponent on the flag lowers their flag a little bit.

While your physical presence on the flags will halt the enemy capture, killing an enemy in this zone will also knock back their progress a little bit (something small, say 5-10% ... numbers will need to be tweaked)

This would only really be felt in the "I'm stopping the cap, get your asses over here guys!" type situation where one hero is outnumbered on flags and waiting for backup. Sure, he can just turtle... but if he snags a couple of kills, he can earn a few extra seconds for his teammates to show up after he dies.

There's now a bigger choice between passively halting the enemy capture, and aggressively setting them back.

I don't think we have to worry about this affecting "big" fights on the flags (1st round instaflags are going the way of the dodo anyway, yes?).

-Rewards aggression
-Makes kills on the flag feel better ("Well, I bought you guys an extra 3 seconds. Good luck!")
-BIG PLAYS BIG PLAYS BIG PLAYS

I'm too much of a jackass at the moment to expand or detract from anything here. Just wanted to say that Johammeth has some great ideas that should be considered.

(click to show/hide)

and i like his puns and i think he's a qt3.14

My only real suggestion/addition is to consider the first round to be flag-less until more balanced flags can be worked out. It really sucks for people to think "well goddamn, I'm gonna lose my multi just because I got on the opposite end of the map from where the flag spawns."

I suggest that MoTF only come up after 5 people alive, even on the first round. If MOTF can be programmed in such a way that good balance between spawn-points is achieved (not some bullshit where one team has to scramble 3x the distance of another just to make it to flags, where they will fight an entrenched and prepared bad guy), at that point MOTF on the first round should return. Hopefully I've made myself clear enough.