Author Topic: Archery for Strategus  (Read 2302 times)

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Offline peter_afca7

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Re: Archery for Strategus
« Reply #30 on: June 05, 2013, 01:25:37 pm »
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Offline Keshian

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Re: Archery for Strategus
« Reply #31 on: June 05, 2013, 02:16:09 pm »
-1
Archery aint a support class.

http://c-rpg.net/index.php?page=battlesparticipated#!?page=battleroster&id=2870 - siege (attacker)

http://c-rpg.net/index.php?page=battlesparticipated#!?page=battleroster&id=3744 - open field (attacker)

If that is so you're just bad :P I got 6 PD btw.

Yeah, if you are going to do archer - just do the minimum powerdraw with maxed out weaponmaster - it makes it incredibly easy as long as you use bodkins you will do nearly the same damage as strength build archers without the huge nerf to weapon proficiency.  They mentioned a long time ago they were going to buff strength archers but they never did, one of the reasons I plan on retiring - tired of fighting with gimped build against easy mode agility archery.  But yeah playing on alts minimum powerdraw with high weaponmaster has made it very easy for me to get head shots, the arrows actually consistently go exactly where you aim them. 

Archery doesn't really need a buff (maybe powerdraw shouldn't massively nerf weapon proficiency since you are already trading weaponmaster points to get more powerdraw) - heavy cavalry just needs nerf and the damage of xbows needs slight nerf so they actually have to get headshots to kill or 3 bolts instead of often killing with 1 body shot or at most 2 with mw arbalest and mw steel bolts.


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« Last Edit: June 05, 2013, 03:34:17 pm by Keshian »
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Offline Gurnisson

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Re: Archery for Strategus
« Reply #32 on: June 05, 2013, 02:22:06 pm »
+1
They mentioned a long time ago they were going to buff strength archers but they never did

They did reduce the amount of lost wpf to PD. The draw rate and accuracy is a lot better than before. You've almost one-shot me with around 60 body armour and 24 strength in strategus fyi, you just don't notice the difference because the 6 PD archers usually take around 50 % and will also use 2 arrows to take me down on full health.

heavy cavalry just needs nerf

They're finally not garbage compared to the light horses and their price, and now you think they need a nerf? I don't think so, at least.

and the damage of xbows needs slight nerf so they actually have to get headshots to kill or 3 bolts instead of often killing with 1 body shot or at most 2 with mw arbalest and mw steel bolts.

The damage is not that much higher than mw long bow and mw bodkins and the rate of fire is quite a lot lower and they can't reload on the move. I'd rather see xbow get a buff than a nerf to be honest.
I voted Gurnisson cause of his fucking bendy pike, I swear noone can roflcopter stab like he can.

Offline Keshian

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Re: Archery for Strategus
« Reply #33 on: June 05, 2013, 02:47:48 pm »
-2
They did reduce the amount of lost wpf to PD. The draw rate and accuracy is a lot better than before. You've almost one-shot me with around 60 body armour and 24 strength in strategus fyi, you just don't notice the difference because the 6 PD archers usually take around 50 % and will also use 2 arrows to take me down on full health.

They're finally not garbage compared to the light horses and their price, and now you think they need a nerf? I don't think so, at least.

The damage is not that much higher than mw long bow and mw bodkins and the rate of fire is quite a lot lower and they can't reload on the move. I'd rather see xbow get a buff than a nerf to be honest.

Not by much if they did, lol.  Its still extremely significant nerf to wpf with higher powerdraw - with 9 powerdraw - it effectively reduces my wpf to below 120.  And you are right both archers usually take 3-4 arrows to kill or 2 arrows for lightly armored agility builds (like anyone is lightly armored or agility build in strategus anymore).

Thats the thing - price is not a deterrent anymore not in crpg and definitely not in strategus, so yes they need a nerf in actual stats not cost.  They were never "garbage" compared to lighter horses, and now they make it incrediblye asy to get 70+ kills with very little skill because of the sheer insane durability of triple loomed armored horses being ridden by full plate armor people who can still do strength builds tfor survivability and damage since you only need 5 riding.

The difference is rate of fire trade-off with permanent steady shot and higher shoot speed with mw arbalest.  The damage is higher than mw long bow and mw bodkins partially because of the higher shoot speed which sustains more damage over distance.  Also, you only need 15 strength with no points put into powerdraw, which makes it easier to max out weapon proficiency (15-27 builds are very common now) and with no powerdraw nerf the accuracy is significantly higher using an arbalest.

So you have accuracy, shoot speed, steady reticule, and damage for what - a slower reload speed where you can just hide behind siege shield/building/turret to reload whereas archers are more exposed and have to pull back the bow while aiming instead of having ready shot-sidestep-shoot-sidestep back and reload.  have you been in any strategus battles lately?   There are reasons heavy cav builds and xbow builds have become more common over the past year.
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Offline Teeth

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Re: Archery for Strategus
« Reply #34 on: June 05, 2013, 03:18:01 pm »
+2
They're finally not garbage compared to the light horses and their price, and now you think they need a nerf? I don't think so, at least..
Hah, in Strat nothing is as OP as heavy horses, often the outcome of the battle is decided by whoever brings the most cav in slightly open maps. The horses tank like 5 longspear stabs and then the rider requires another 4. Their distractive role and bumping role alone makes them incredibly important. Which is more of an economy problem to be fair, people should not have that much money that they can waste it on all sorts of low cost/effectivity items.

Offline Gurnisson

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Re: Archery for Strategus
« Reply #35 on: June 05, 2013, 03:46:51 pm »
+1
Not by much if they did, lol.  Its still extremely significant nerf to wpf with higher powerdraw - with 9 powerdraw - it effectively reduces my wpf to below 120.  And you are right both archers usually take 3-4 arrows to kill or 2 arrows for lightly armored agility builds (like anyone is lightly armored or agility build in strategus anymore).

Is 24 strength ~60 body armor lightly armored agility build? I rarely have the joy of being alive after 2 arrows in strategus.

Thats the thing - price is not a deterrent anymore not in crpg and definitely not in strategus, so yes they need a nerf in actual stats not cost.  They were never "garbage" compared to lighter horses, and now they make it incrediblye asy to get 70+ kills with very little skill because of the sheer insane durability of triple loomed armored horses being ridden by full plate armor people who can still do strength builds tfor survivability and damage since you only need 5 riding.

They have to fix the economy rather than nerf heavy cav. Heavy cav ain't op in crpg and shouldn't be nerfed. However, the amount of heavy armour and expensive items in strategus is ridiculous. There's no reason not to get the most effective gear at all times, because cost is not an issue.

The difference is rate of fire trade-off with permanent steady shot and higher shoot speed with mw arbalest.  The damage is higher than mw long bow and mw bodkins partially because of the higher shoot speed which sustains more damage over distance.  Also, you only need 15 strength with no points put into powerdraw, which makes it easier to max out weapon proficiency (15-27 builds are very common now) and with no powerdraw nerf the accuracy is significantly higher using an arbalest.

Archers will shine more in the fields, while xbows will shine more in sieges. I see no problem with that. The accuracy is barely any different anyway, you just have more time to pick the perfect shot as a crossbowman.

So you have accuracy, shoot speed, steady reticule, and damage for what - a slower reload speed where you can just hide behind siege shield/building/turret to reload whereas archers are more exposed and have to pull back the bow while aiming instead of having ready shot-sidestep-shoot-sidestep back and reload.  have you been in any strategus battles lately?   There are reasons heavy cav builds and xbow builds have become more common over the past year.

I play quite a bit of strat, yes. I find archers do be way more devastating on the fields, where also the heavy cav and the pikemen/hoplites shines. Xbows, shielders and two-handers have an easier time on the sieges.

Hah, in Strat nothing is as OP as heavy horses, often the outcome of the battle is decided by whoever brings the most cav in slightly open maps. The horses tank like 5 longspear stabs and then the rider requires another 4. Their distractive role and bumping role alone makes them incredibly important. Which is more of an economy problem to be fair, people should not have that much money that they can waste it on all sorts of low cost/effectivity items.

Biased little view you have Teeth. You are playing the most op build in strategus yourself. It's not the heavy cavalry that usually defines the outcome (I expect you're talking about field battles), it's more the hoplites and pikeman who does, but I guess you won't admit that? :)
I voted Gurnisson cause of his fucking bendy pike, I swear noone can roflcopter stab like he can.

Offline Teeth

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Re: Archery for Strategus
« Reply #36 on: June 05, 2013, 05:00:14 pm »
+1
Biased little view you have Teeth. You are playing the most op build in strategus yourself. It's not the heavy cavalry that usually defines the outcome (I expect you're talking about field battles), it's more the hoplites and pikeman who does, but I guess you won't admit that? :)
I have never failed to acknowledge the extreme strength of support polearms in Strategus, dunno why you would call me biased in that regard. The number of support polearms are usually quite evenly distributed across the two teams though, therefore they won't really decide the outcome. I think this is less so with cav. When the number of cavalry is noticably higher on one team, you really get to see the destructive force of heavy cavalry. When the war between Shu Han and The Coalition had just started, they managed to draw up some GK's and other cav, causing them to often have 15 or even 20 cavalry players. All of course on +3 Chargers and wearing +3 Corrazina armour. Even when defending a fairly closed village, this number of cavalry completely destroyed any infantry cohesion or formation on our side due to being too numerous to stop. I think you were present for a few of these battles as well. Of course we as a Byzantium led faction had a very good line up of support polearms, but yet we did quite badly.

When you actually manage to stop a heavy horse, half a dozen people turn around to kill the horse, while the rider sits up there blocking. When the horse dies, that means that there is usually a very angry shielder in the middle of your infantry group. If this happens a few times, your infantry will be completely scattered, fighting enemies that are running around them everywhere and all the support polearms get raped. I probably don't have to explain to you that support polearming is at its most effective when there are two somewhat linear formations fighting eachother.

When heavy cavalry charges and infantry charges are properly combined, heavy cav offers a huge advantage and can change the outcome. I am talking about the big picture here, not so much that heavy cavalry tops the scoreboards, of course that is the support polearm grinding points by killing their horses, but more their ability to completely disrupt an infantry group, giving an advantage to their own infantry group.

In these Shu Han - Coalition battles we got pwnd when they pulled of a proper wave, we even lost our spawns one time, and I dare say we outclassed them in the pikemen/hoplite field. Simply by parking extremely tanky horses and players dead center in an infantry group.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2013, 05:04:35 pm by Teeth »

Offline bagge

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Re: Archery for Strategus
« Reply #37 on: June 05, 2013, 07:17:29 pm »
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Yeah WM is the way too go. I always, always aim for the head, which is easier with more prof. I see archer that fail completely with the same build as me thou, cause they havn't learned to headshot yet :P

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I hope you guys get some sort of sticky balls deseases and smell like my armpits, sorry excusese for nolife fucking cunts you are.