Remove catapults and siege towers on NA_Siege - until fixed

[Paroxysm]

Catapults and siege towers are causing some major grief at certain times.

Siege towers take a second to build, have massive HP, and can be built inside buildings. Also can be built on top of the flag to grief it. One guy built a siege tower underneath the siege ramp, making it impassable and having the attackers take 1+ min to destroy it, losing us the map.

Catapults are just as bad. It would be OK if the walls reset between rounds, but they dont, and once the attackers knock down a wall it's just elementary to win after that. The maps were not designed for walls being destroyed and makes defending a joke.

Please remove these things until they're changed

[Gash]

I will discuss with the admins on vent - since the C-sites are destructible, they will be allowed again.

The things you can build with them we will have to observe what's being abused by the players. I've been told by others as well that Towers are being built just to block off areas now.

Stay tuned.

[Tzar]

It adds alot of flavour to and all rdy overplayed game mode but yeah it has issues 

[Tungsten]

Construction materials are counting as 35 right now as opposed to the 1 they did up till now (as far as I remembered) which is why things build instantly.

Could I get a confirmation on whether this is a bug or intended?

[Malaclypse]

note: copied almost verbatim, originally used in response to Nindur's thread on the subject earlier today

I was initially totally stoked to discover that C-sites are destructible, but watching them in action, I'm afraid they're not quite fixed. Known issues in the new patch:

It only takes 1 construction material to make a healing tent, and I think 3 to make a catapault, etc. If this is intended, pardon me, but I always thought this would be more like a "many hands make light work" scenario with 25+ people donating a material. Or at the least, one guy throwing them down on each respawn, not just lolmagichereyougo!

Another thing is, if you drop a c-site and then use the materials, if you pick up somebody elses weapon it drops a new copy of c-site and materials, effectively giving you infinite amounts of each so you can make ten siege towers in a matter of minutes, or cover your flag in healing tents. I think something similar to this is also going on with ladders, which may mean that they to will be subject to new rules regarding their use until such time as the issue is fixed.

If you use a catapault to take a wall down during round 1, it will be gone for all other rounds in that game. This would be great if you didn't have the chance to be autobalanced to defense after all your hard work only to have it bite you in the ass, haha.

Lastly, the potential to grief with c-sites is still very high, and I still see it being done. People covering the flag with a siege tower (which I might add is damn near unbreakable- at least a healing tent only takes 1 hit), and blocking areas with the now destructible, but still annoying, c-sites themselves. I wish we played in a community that would at least use these things for their intended purposes, and we have some people who do, who want to see them used properly, but others are, frankly, just trolls, and there is no solution for this that I can see except for administrative enforcement or an unfortunate blanket ban on the use of siege equipment.

[chaosegg]

+1 for disallowing of c-sites till fixed... again. 

Towers take about 10 seconds to build and minutes to destroy...
Catapults destroy walls which do not respawn the next round. =\

Seen towers built on flags, totally covering it from 3 sides.
Seen towers provide easy/relatively indestructible way for attackers to get directly to gate controls.
Seen healing tents make defense near unstoppable.
All this would make sense if it wasn't able to be done so fast (a matter of seconds, not minutes).

On a positive note, the new ladder physics seem way better as far as exploit issues go...
I don't even think sky ladders are possible anymore.

P.S.
For the love of all that is good, please consider removing Blank 84 from the siege map rotation till it's edited to have better attacker spawn location.
The map might work now with the new towers and ladder physics, but it was an auto-loss for attackers pre-patch.

[Glyph]

i would say that if people want to build a map that's catapult proof form now on they should build multiple wall inside eachother so if a catapult would destroy a wall then another one would stand in exactely the same place. this way it wouldn't be rewarding to destroy a wall because it will take you 3 rounds to do it.
though for the existing maps i have no idea...

[Rangerbob]

I've been seeing a few instances of abuse for example siege towers blocking off a flag or an entrance or catapults making parts of walls inaccessable.  It doesn't happen often when I'm on but I tell the NA siege guys any sign of abuse will be met with a straight ban if I catch em.  Think healing tents are great and are they only siege equipment that really works.  Towers are just too buggy now since half the time you can't run up them and catapults just break the game.  Not only that they're horribly distracting with 10 or 15 people running around them like little chickens with their head cut off.  Finally anyone who uses construction sites can and do abuse them with the whole spawn extra after picking up another weapon.

[von_felty]

1. Wouldn't it make sense to program the mod so thatdefenders can't use c-sites at all?

or

2. Make it so that defenders can't build objects that have collision detection.

It would be a shame to disallow c-sites all together because I did see a few creative uses of siege towers on the attacker side to win a round.

I suppose that leaves the issue of an attacker griefing his own team...

So...

3. Why not make it so when you place an object on the map, the name of the object is tagged with the player's name on the end so you can see who built it so its obvious for an admin to be able to kick them or a kick/ban vote among the players.

[Nindur]

*****NA server Rule Update******


We discussed it today, and then discussed it again. Construction sites are allowed, However, you are NOT allowed to build Siege towers or Catapults due to the fact that they are very easy to exploit!

Use at your own risk, punishment will be swift and harsh if you are found to be abusing siege equipment!!

We will update the server rules list as soon as we can get the attention of a moderator.