Author Topic: Lobbyism  (Read 4882 times)

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Offline Panos

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Re: Lobbyism
« Reply #90 on: January 25, 2013, 02:33:57 am »
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I'm quite conflicted when it comes to this stuff. Players that know how to win are playing the game as it's designed better than other players. If you win then you played the game better, it doesn't matter about self constructed "fair play".

So you can blame the game rather than the player. On the other hand people have an expectation of "fun" while gaming. I respect good players, regardless of how they achieve their goals. Respect is the wrong word, maybe hold in higher esteem...Having fun can include not being bored by another players gameplay, not being beaten by "cheap" things that allow the player to exploit inherent strengths of a class without having to compete against other players.

Panos your point where "fun" gets interrupted by other people playing to win is different to mine. I mostly don't give a damn about the way people use melee abilities to win. I see it as fair use of game mechanics. 2 hand stab, backpeddle (to an extent), side swing spam, whatever. If it wins a melee fight then its fair game. Ranged is a whole other beast that relies on having an intrinsic ability that other classes don't have. You get a huge tactical advantage that they would be fools to neglect, but at the same time it spoils the gameplay when there is little depth in the counters, or the counters involve boring gameplay like hiding or waiting for flags

So its no wonder people make full use of ranged mechanics in this game. Its a smart way to win as the game is designed atm. I won't because the gameplay of ranged bores me, and I don't want to add to the amount of ranged in the game

No mate, exploiting to win is as bad as taking money from the table that`s not your`s, besides these things that I`m desperaterly yelling to change , are broken and everyone knows it, or at least people who can value when a game is played fair and when not.

But the thing is that this broken mechanics can be fixed and then we can talk about fair and square skill.

Anyway, today I realized that I`m just wasting my time trying to bring total balance to the game since it`s clear obvious that kuyak heroes rule the mod and we will never have balanced classes.

I guess I was dumb enough to try and convince people that lolstab is the most abusive and retarded animation that a game engine have ever offered to a game.
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Offline Grumbs

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Re: Lobbyism
« Reply #91 on: January 25, 2013, 03:56:46 am »
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I would try to play with the assumption that 2 handers have a strong stab ability. There is game theory in this. You know he has a strong stab, and you can know its strengths and weaknesses and can play to counter it. If I see a stab animation I have a direct counter that is always available that removes 100% of the damage, and not only that I can then follow up with my own move that can have a guaranteed attack window where he has to defend himself. I can choose to make an attack, hold an attack and see what he does, hold right attack while circling to his left and see if he can't block, change position towards a team mate and see if he over extends, pretend I lose focus on him, feint an attack and attack the same direction on any number of feints, or change direction whenever etc. Good players won't care that the stab is strong, they will play to counter it if they see it as a threat (I don't necessarily, I think its just generally a good attack in the right situation). If you get outnumbered then you did something wrong. If you fail a block you made a skill mistake. Misjudged the extent of your or the enemies attack then you can only blame yourself. You have to take the combat as a whole rather than zero in on one ability like the stab. I don't think the 2 hand stab supersedes all the other stuff you can do in melee. I'm not saying that nothing in melee can be OP, but there is some leeway due to all the other things involved in it

Thats only from my perspective as I play. You then have the enemies reaction to what he anticipates me to be doing. Theres definitely a layer of depth in melee that gets close to game theory for me. The pacing is slow enough and contains enough variables that can allow for this type of gameplay.

When it comes to ranged, I just feel like its shallow and devoid of a lot of the stuff that makes M&B a unique pvp style game.

About exploits being similar to taking money off a table...I don't really agree as every 2 hander has the opportunity within the confines of the actual game. Taking money off a table is more akin to turning someone's computer off as they are playing. Its outside the confines of the game. There is a grey area with exploits, but general game mechanics that are available to everyone without modifying the game are all fair game to me. If there are tricks to things well you just need to learn them or learn to counter them. If the devs want to change anything they can, but until then you have to play the game as its designed

I'm not trying to make out M&B is a super complex strategic game. I am a lot of the time just going around hitting people when they are in a weak situation. But I do it to try to win the round, I don't care if that makes it unfair. I see it as exploiting other people's mistakes or lack of awareness. I don't care if you died through something I did that was unfair, I did it to win the round. If I played ranged I would feel the same I'm sure, and I can see why ranged players would want to protect that gameplay that brings them success. Its just not "fun" for a lot of players. At least in melee people can by and large only blame themselves when they get in bad positions or have bad teamplay or whatever else they do. In ranged gameplay its very one sided and lacking the depth of melee counters and on the fly decision making

Again not making out I play cRPG like this all the time or that melee always has a lot of depth, just trying to point out that you're more likely to find hidden depth in melee than in ranged, and that renders some seemingly OP melee abilities unimportant.
If you have ranged troubles use this:

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Offline rufio

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Re: Lobbyism
« Reply #92 on: January 25, 2013, 04:43:47 am »
-1
And to answer to rufio, I play naked you little whinning my old friend, because I have to leech some gold to buy some MW shit, no worries this will be my last generation that I  leech. You`ll see after that what happens.

oh snap, ok fairyboy come duel me eu3 , you pick weapons and builds and we stf that shit, il whoop your silly ass across the whole map and show you whos a whiny bitch. 8-)

*edit , you also get to pick gear, probably will be a dress or some other fairy shit, but itl be worth it once i get to bath in your tears and hear your shitty excuses.

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« Last Edit: January 25, 2013, 04:51:22 am by rufio »
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Offline Tears of Destiny

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Re: Lobbyism
« Reply #93 on: January 25, 2013, 04:48:25 am »
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Offline Teeth

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Re: Lobbyism
« Reply #94 on: January 25, 2013, 09:45:14 am »
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Because cav can go anywhere and because ranged can attack anywhere, whereas a footman is restricted to going where his little feet can take him and attacking who his little arms can reach. This leaves the poor footman to often feel like he is drawing the short end of the stick.

Offline Grumpy_Nic

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Re: Lobbyism
« Reply #95 on: January 25, 2013, 09:58:09 am »
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Because cav can go anywhere and because ranged can attack anywhere, whereas a footman is restricted to going where his little feet can take him and attacking who his little arms can reach. This leaves the poor footman to often feel like he is drawing the short end of the stick.

Every little footman can press "Esc" & "Quit". An alternative would be the "Respec" or "Retirement" button on his char page.

Offline Vibe

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Re: Lobbyism
« Reply #96 on: January 25, 2013, 10:02:53 am »
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Every little footman can press "Esc" & "Quit". An alternative would be the "Respec" or "Retirement" button on his char page.

hahaha no

I do recommend the "unscrubize" button for all the ranged players though.

Offline JohanE

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Re: Lobbyism
« Reply #97 on: January 25, 2013, 01:25:19 pm »
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Just go to the duelserver, hand in hand, 2h my old friends.

Offline Leshma

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Re: Lobbyism
« Reply #98 on: January 25, 2013, 01:53:23 pm »
+1
Just go to the duelserver, hand in hand, 2h my old friends.

There's a reason why you don't see me on nditions native duel server. I don't like duels and if whole point of this game was dueling I would never play it.

I actually like archers, there's nothing better than killing you schmucks from behind :D