long dagger vs rondel dagger stats

[CrazyCracka420]

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Not lobbying one way or another here, but it appears the long dagger is superior to rondel.  I'll gladly give up 1 pierce for 2 speed and 10 length (not to mention a decent swing stat compared to no swinging unless you switch to alt mode...aka you can chamber block easier) 

[Switchtense]

rondel has 26pierce swing but still, nerf long dagger!

[DaveUKR]

long dagger is completely useless with high agility builds, with 3-9 strength these under 30 cut swings always glance.

[sF_Guardian]

You don't even need to set the direction to use the op stab with Rondel, thats why it's still superior.
Just turn your brain off and click left. With a shield its even worse, autoblock + spam ftw.

[CrazyCracka420]

Didn't think about it's use with a shield.  As a weapon without a shield, the long seems better, since you can still chamber block.  And yes, I realize that the rondel's secondary mode is a swinging pierce damage.  I still think the long dagger seems like the better weapon.

But like I said, I wasn't lobbying one way or another, just thought the stats didn't seem to match compared up to each other.

[Nehvar]

Also, long dagger is waaaay sexier.

[Tomas_Miles_again]

Rondel is superior. Alt mode can chamber all directions, and it is pierce swing.

[Tydeus]

Rondel was supposed to lose his swings.

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

Rondel is superior. Alt mode can chamber all directions, and it is pierce swing.

- Thomas Miles, owner of a 3+ long dagger.

[Tomas_Miles_again]

Without swings, rondel is worse then.

Zlisch I wouldn't mind a nerf to both the daggers, but my point was that the rondel alt mode was pretty much a budget steel pick.

And spell my name right!

[Leshma]

These daggers are fine. What's not fine is ability to use them with a shield (that shouldn't be possible because of abuse potential) and their low STR requirements. We really don't need more of those silly builds around, and if you put higher STR requirement they'll simply banish because they won't have 10+ ATH anymore. Although, even with 7 ATH and light armor I can phase in, get a strike and phase out before enemy is able to hit me.

I really don't mind those little buggers who use rondel or long dagger without a shield. But those who use a shield are retarded imho. It's a weapon meant for chamberblocking, not for punks who can't manual block for shit.

Edit: My suggestion is to rebuff both daggers to old damage and speed values but put not usable with a shield tag. We really don't need more shielders in this game, all you did since 2010. patch was buff shielders, directly or indirectly. Shielders might be historically accurate class but as long all it takes to block an attack is press or tap right button, shielder class won't be interesting to me at all. And it shouldn't be dominant.

[WITCHCRAFT]

The worst thing about these weapons is not only their stupidly high base stats for price and tier, but not only do they gain maximum benefit from looms (unlike peasant class armour) they actually get bigger improvements- both the rondel and long dagger get +4 Pierce from max loom! Long dagger also receives the standard +3 cut at the same time!

No other melee weapon benefits this much from looms, and the weapons already have poorly thought out stats to begin with. Imagine the QQ fest if other stab-based weapons like espada, side sword, awlpike or estoc got +4 pierce at max loom? We'd never hear the end of it.

Even with the superior loom bonus, people will most often take a "real" weapon over a dagger. The extremely short reach and lack of manual blocking is a deal breaker.

I have used +3 Long Dagger and Rondel, and I preferred the long dagger. Having to switch between weapon modes to stab or swing negates the attack speed that these weapons have vs a slower weapon. It's tedious and got me killed many times when a quick feint and change of direction would have helped me. I always used them with 6+ PS, so the cut swings are actually viable attacks.

The dagger/shield extreme agi builds are annoying and anachronistic. Changing the attack stats on daggers will not "ruin" these builds unless the daggers are nerfed to the point of never being used by anyone ever.

[Bulzur]

What i hate about thoses weapons, is the cost/effectiveness ratio.


It's the best weapon to leech/troll/kill, all combined in one weapon.

Putting a "not usable with shield" would indeed solve the problem, since it'd be way harder for them to get an "easy" kill.
I wouldn't mind keeping them as it is, but then increasing their price, for balance purpose. (and adding 3 STR requirements, for no 13 shield skill)

[Grumbs]

1 hand stab buff was just so good that it made a 600 gold weapon better than anything else at that price range. The stab is too good still imo

[San]

They can't block, so why make them usable with shield? I think the weapons are deserving of good stats as long as they can't block. Right now, they're just watered down scottish swords.