Casual Players. Help/Support them please. They are part of the game.

[FunnyDream]

Do you hate them ?



Hello everyone.

First of all, I wish to apologize about my english, which isn't great. I'm from France.
I'm not really here to whine, to complain or so. I'm just gonna give my impressions about the patch as a complete random/casual crpg player you may never have seen in game. Here starts the story.


"
Yesterday, I receive some messages from my friends (also casual players), saying their character page is not showing, or talking about a "rollback" or whatever you can imagine. Let's resume the reaction "lolwtf ?".




So, First, I went to check my precious character. I noticed the loss of many things I worked for. Without any info anywhere except for a random link "blabla update.zip" in the main page which isn't explaining anything. I also notice a nice load of topic creation on the forum, which is really helping me to get any decent info about the new patch (Trying to dodge the CAPS WHINNERS, the LoLTrollers, the "idontlikeitiQQileaveiwantmyitemsbackiamanidiotwhoisoverreactingtoasimplepatch" topics.).
Do you think it's Normal to have to seek info everywhere about something like that ? I don't think so. I know the admins are not professionnals or so. I know most of the players are "hooked" by the game, considering how many time they spent to upgrade their char. But can you imagine the impact it can have on random casual players that doesn't feel like spending hours (or minutes ?) discussing on a forum, that just wanted to play casually, connecting sometimes, having fun with what their goodies ? Maybe you couldn't care less, but it would be mean to think like that for some obvious reasons. (Do I really need to explain why ?)



Anyway. I tried to go through this patch. After loosing 10 precious level I farmed some days ago (was level 20, rollback to level 9. It was 11 level of pure frustration, getting killed by tincans being a peasant. Anyway, it's ok. Shit Happens.). I looked for some info on the forum. It's pretty hard to find anything consistant, except for the lol"Areyouagreewiththebugguedweirdpatch" sondage from chadz, which doesn't even give a decent changelog. No offense here, but I think it's silly. I feel like you try to give some pills to a cat (I'm the cat if you didn't get the comparaison.). It MAY probably not happen. I also noticed a bunch of "haha tincans are owned!" and a LOAD of "oh noes I can't pay my bill I'm screwed, back to peasant!", followed by some trolls "haha die in hell! Ex-TinCan".
I nearly felt afraid to try out my old gear (which isn't even a tin can, it's a mail outfit), just because of the bill (it may be the point of the patch).
But simply.. I don't get it. I played this game casually, never had troubles with tin cans or so. Yeah, Tin Cans are harder to kill (Wow that's WEIIIIRD §§§, or not ? Well not really, get a blunt and that's it ?) I felt like the game was balanced before, but could need some small adjustments, not really about overrated tin cans (Blunt/Pierce them FFS). I think the way this patch has been introduced may look like you're trying to bone hard some ppl. Especially the "Over the Roof" players.
These players are usually cool, calm, playing all day long, are super high level and kills everyone which is not near their levels... So what ? They played for it. I think it's normal. And, they were still 3 hits with my casual warhammer. Some randoms peasants/LowGeared(/Trollers ?) ppl are frustrated not to be able to kill them ? Now they're just laughing at them. I personnally don't think it's "normal".
Do you think it's normal to nerf tin cans that are easily beatable ? (I'm casual and I still think they're not so hard.)
Do you think it's normal to nerf "overtheroof" players ? I kinda think they didn't deserve it. Too bad for players that didn't play as nearly as those players.

Then, I noticed some changes on items. To be honest, changing some items is great. This game needed to be clear on the shop page. Now it is a bit more readable. I noticed some changes on my heilroomed items. I felt boned a little bit. My Scary Warhammer transformed into a balanced Warhammer. (Balanced used to be only 1 heilroom when Scary used to be 2 heilroom right ?) I'm not against changes. Still, once more, I feel boned. This item was my only reason for playing such frustrative levels (1 to 20) where you can't kill anyone decently geared. Now I have to redo these levels (9 to 20) to get an item I didn't really expected to have (and don't really want as much as I wanted my old item). It's no big deal (To be honest, for me, it is.). Still, I'm getting just a lil' frustrated here.

Also, I noticed a good load of bugs coming with the patch. Connexion bugs, installation tutorial ? Nowhere. They just threw us a random zip link with no info. I feel a lil' bit disapointed. Installing a patch is not hard (desinstall old mod/Put the new one), still, there's better ways to introduce it than just throwing it randomly everywhere until ppl finds it.

Finally, I also noticed some "last minute changes" about this patch. Admins don't even look confident about it. Why should I feel confident about it ? Changes about WPF ? How ? Erm...
"







As a total casual player (again), I don't think this patch has been introduced correctly. It sounds like :

Lack of communication from admins.
Lack of testing (Last second changes are not the way to do it. Even if you're not pro, and an human-being able to make mistakes.)
Lack of comprehension from admins about ppl that doesn't really want to spend hours looking for info.
Lack of moderation from admins on their own forum (Damn, so many trolls. I feel like I went back to exteel forums flame out there.)
And a lot of frustration. (About levels, not being informed, heilroomed item we played for, etc.)





In any case, I don't even feel like playing this mod anymore. My friends too. Maybe you don't care, I do. And I think some ppl may be in the same case. It's not "olol he lost his OP character, now he's whining". I was having a level 20 1Hander. I just :

Feel disapointed.
Feel boned a lil' bit.
Feel not confident, about admins, about this patch. (If they can change our well-deserved heilroom items, and rollback our char, + put some lolmaintenance on your armor, they can do worse.).


To be honest, after reading some posts, I didn't even try to play this mod anymore. (Back at level 9 peasant, it's not even worth it anyway lol).
Especially because I was afraid of doing something wrong with my char like getting some huge bills for no reasons, investing point in items/stats not worth it anymore because of the changes (Changelog ?)


Ok, I would like a tons of things to do, but this post is already really long, my english is just teribad. Here are my impressions.

Please give us some love. We are Casual, but we deserve it (at least a bit ?).



- FunnyDream

[Vicious666]

you can do 1-30 in 1 day if you play 10h like all, than mod is pretty much done.     except upkeep.      is like playng native


i am an ex tin-can, and trust me many non tin-can player like you  say that they not got any issue, but even dreamed to become one with time, and that was the interesting part of game. personally in my clan    from a total of 20 player only 3 played tincan. so i never see tincan as  uber used option, was a game choice,  i was faar slower than olwen for example, on a middle way armor ,and even  majority of ppl around was in  middle cuirass (transitional-chuirburg etc )        and when i was   i am talking about starting of this mod,     a noob in  heraldic mail, vs oberyn and varyag in charger and   good armors,       i never cryed or thinked that they not deserved such armor,     or they  lacked skills lol

[Spawny]

majority of ppl around was in  middle cuirass (transitional-chuirburg etc )

Meh, imo Transitional and higher is all plate armour

Then, I noticed some changes on items. To be honest, changing some items is great. This game needed to be clear on the shop page. Now it is a bit more readable. I noticed some changes on my heilroomed items. I felt boned a little bit. My Scary Warhammer transformed into a balanced Warhammer. (Balanced used to be only 1 heilroom when Scary used to be 2 heilroom right ?) I'm not against changes. Still, once more, I feel boned. This item was my only reason for playing such frustrative levels (1 to 20) where you can't kill anyone decently geared. Now I have to redo these levels (9 to 20) to get an item I didn't really expected to have (and don't really want as much as I wanted my old item). It's no big deal (To be honest, for me, it is.). Still, I'm getting just a lil' frustrated here.

Just so you know: Balanced is now the second modifier and tempered is the first.
Your warhammer still has 2 heirloommodifiers, the names are just different.

My scary broad one handed battle axe turned into a powerful one.

[Vicious666]

Meh, imo Transitional and higher is all plate armour

Then, I noticed some changes on items. To be honest, changing some items is great. This game needed to be clear on the shop page. Now it is a bit more readable. I noticed some changes on my heilroomed items. I felt boned a little bit. My Scary Warhammer transformed into a balanced Warhammer. (Balanced used to be only 1 heilroom when Scary used to be 2 heilroom right ?) I'm not against changes. Still, once more, I feel boned. This item was my only reason for playing such frustrative levels (1 to 20) where you can't kill anyone decently geared. Now I have to redo these levels (9 to 20) to get an item I didn't really expected to have (and don't really want as much as I wanted my old item). It's no big deal (To be honest, for me, it is.). Still, I'm getting just a lil' frustrated here.

Just so you know: Balanced is now the second modifier and tempered is the first.
Your warhammer still has 2 heirloommodifiers, the names are just different.

My scary broad one handed battle axe turned into a powerful one.

PLATE >  up are plate.

plate is the low tier plate. than gothic etc etc

 transitional and   others where high tier of middle armors.  where the heraldic with     tabard probably was the entry level of middle armor


chuirbuirg where middle way between top tier  middle and entry level of plates

[Paul]

Do you hate them ?

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Then, I noticed some changes on items. To be honest, changing some items is great. This game needed to be clear on the shop page. Now it is a bit more readable. I noticed some changes on my heilroomed items. I felt boned a little bit. My Scary Warhammer transformed into a balanced Warhammer. (Balanced used to be only 1 heilroom when Scary used to be 2 heilroom right ?) I'm not against changes. Still, once more, I feel boned. This item was my only reason for playing such frustrative levels (1 to 20) where you can't kill anyone decently geared. Now I have to redo these levels (9 to 20) to get an item I didn't really expected to have (and don't really want as much as I wanted my old item). It's no big deal (To be honest, for me, it is.). Still, I'm getting just a lil' frustrated here.

We try to hate everyone equally.

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Your warhammer is still tier +2, the name of the modifier got changed from scary to balanced. Heirloom boni got globally lowered abit  though, not just your warhammer.On the plus side, you can heirloom your warhammer a 3rd time now, turning it into a "deadly" warhammer. That is, when heirlooming works again.

It is intended that heirloomed items do not cost more to repair than mundane ones, maybe it's bugged atm. So they will have another advantage here, being able to be used without repairing for a longer time.

[FunnyDream]

We try to hate everyone equally.

I lol'd.

Still, the way you introduced these changes is weird.
Downloading this "new" mod atm. Gonna try it in some minutes. I guess I should be happy not to be level 40.

[Lookbehind]

you can do 1-30 in 1 day if you play 10h like all, than mod is pretty much done.     except upkeep.      is like playng native

This is exactly the same feeling I had when I started again with the new patch. Before the patch there was this "magical goal" to level up enough and save up enough money for some decent armor and/or a good horse and in the meantime improving your fighting skills (just like you have in every RPG). By playing 1-2 hours a day it would take quite some time to reach that goal, but the journey towards it was the thing that was so much fun, because every day you could see you were getting a little closer to some of your goals.
And I think that's what making a game (and an RPG especially) fun, the journey towards your goals. Once you've reached them it's okay, but playing without any goals gets imo boring very soon.

With this patch, most of my former goals are unreachable, because you can't upkeep a good horse and some decent armor. The second thing is that the "journey" is almost removed, because a) most of my former goals are gone and b) you reach the soft cap level 30 quite fast and after that, there is almost nothing.

If tincans were such a problem pre-patch (not really in my opinion) why not just make them dead-slow with their plate armor (only able to walk instead of running and maybe also decrease attack speed)? The current upkeep system seems to have the goal to almost remove plate armor from the game, mostly because it had too many benefits and almost no downsides. Introduce for example some of the possible downsides I mentioned and an upkeep system might even not be necessary anymore, because with some finetuning the tincan:medium armor ratio would balance itself.

Well, just my opinion and hopefully some constructive feedback to the devs.

[Vicious666]

This is exactly the same feeling I had when I started again with the new patch. Before the patch there was this "magical goal" to level up enough and save up enough money for some decent armor and/or a good horse and in the meantime improving your fighting skills (just like you have in every RPG). By playing 1-2 hours a day it would take quite some time to reach that goal, but the journey towards it was the thing that was so much fun, because every day you could see you were getting a little closer to some of your goals.
And I think that's what making a game (and an RPG especially) fun, the journey towards your goals. Once you've reached them it's okay, but playing without any goals gets imo boring very soon.

With this patch, most of my former goals are unreachable, because you can't upkeep a good horse and some decent armor. The second thing is that the "journey" is almost removed, because a) most of my former goals are gone and b) you reach the soft cap level 30 quite fast and after that, there is almost nothing.

If tincans were such a problem pre-patch (not really in my opinion) why not just make them dead-slow with their plate armor (only able to walk instead of running and maybe also decrease attack speed)? The current upkeep system seems to have the goal to almost remove plate armor from the game, mostly because it had too many benefits and almost no downsides. Introduce for example some of the possible downsides I mentioned and an upkeep system might even not be necessary anymore, because with some finetuning the tincan:medium armor ratio would balance itself.

Well, just my opinion and hopefully some constructive feedback to the devs.

is what i am sayng since days  in 2 forum     

but bad player who where afraid to never grind and wear plate are happy and counter-troll, they not even make     propositions simply lie to themself  sayng  patch is fine.

[Ishar]

It's funny that you mention casual players in the original post. The fact is: casual players have more chance now. Grinding is what's beaten to the ground. No matter how much you play, eventually, you won't be able to equip all your best stuff every time. This is exactly why casual players now have a chance against hardcore gamers. Leveling is really fast, but just up to a certain point: in no time, basically everyone will be around level 30. Maybe a few levels more, but no major differences in stats.
CRPG became more like a skill-based multiplayer game, much like native. It's just that you can customize your character with some limits. And those limits are there to keep all of us on a somewhat equal level, so it's not your stats and gear that define your success, but rather the way you use them.

And that certainly favors casual players: if you don't take the game very seriously, you can compete with the best of the best - they only have minor stat advantage now. Competing with the top players (and even with the not-so-top who just got a plated charger) required much time commitment, playtime spent with grinding. And that didn't favor casual gamers at all: they played less, so grinded less, so the gap between them and the high-level players increased.

[Vicious666]

It's funny that you mention casual players in the original post. The fact is: casual players have more chance now. Grinding is what's beaten to the ground. No matter how much you play, eventually, you won't be able to equip all your best stuff every time. This is exactly why casual players now have a chance against hardcore gamers. Leveling is really fast, but just up to a certain point: in no time, basically everyone will be around level 30. Maybe a few levels more, but no major differences in stats.
CRPG became more like a skill-based multiplayer game, much like native. It's just that you can customize your character with some limits. And those limits are there to keep all of us on a somewhat equal level, so it's not your stats and gear that define your success, but rather the way you use them.

And that certainly favors casual players: if you don't take the game very seriously, you can compete with the best of the best - they only have minor stat advantage now. Competing with the top players (and even with the not-so-top who just got a plated charger) required much time commitment, playtime spent with grinding. And that didn't favor casual gamers at all: they played less, so grinded less, so the gap between them and the high-level players increased.

is funny how you not even read the 3rd where you post

the guy is  CASUAL GAMER. and feel less sense to play the game and instead whine for plate user like you,  he say it was fine.


again you not add anything only waste time on forum like a blind funboy     

ps: i not need a mod of native when there is native,  are you again fucking blind? is all what 65% of this community is sayng, we not need this mod if become similar to native -.-       really go  crack your head against a wall

[FunnyDream]

@Ishar.
The problem is not about it. "Grinders" get higher gears, more stuff, more stats, plate armor. They can kill peasants & Casual players easily (sometimes). I have no prob with this. They kinda deserve it because they worked for it.
I still think it was ok before the patch. But anyway, not my choice and it doesn't really matter.

@Vicious.
I like your intervention, but please do not flame on this thread. You don't need to be so mean with ppl around.


Just tried the mod...
Siege looks bugged.
EXP/Gold system looks a tad weird. Didn't get the gold/exp system yet. I'll look for some info I guess :/ Pretty sad to have to.
I also don't get the "Wear less gear to get more gold to wear more gear" system. I think it's a bit silly. Or at least weird.
Most of ppl are like "I don't care Yo, I can pay the bill yoyo!". It still sounds silly to me considering we all play specific builds with specific gears. (And yeah, more gear is usually synonym of more powerful build and more farm.. so what ? It's normal.)
Now it just makes heavy build less confortable than light build. Which is weird. Balancing Heavy armors with light armors would have been a way better way to fix this problem. (For me, it was already balanced before the patch.. but anyway.)


- FunnyDream


EDIT: Ok, I got the multiplier system. The more you win (streaks), the more you get gold. Kinda giving some huge advantages to unbalanced teams. Which is weird.

[Ishar]

EXP/Gold system looks a tad weird. Didn't get the gold/exp system yet. I'll look for some info I guess :/ Pretty sad to have to.

System couldn't simpler. You get exp and gold per minute, and that's all.

[FunnyDream]

System couldn't simpler. You get exp and gold per minute, and that's all.

There's a multiplier.
Just got how it works. You win = +1 multiplier. You lose = Multiplier back to 1.
Means it favorises a lot unbanlanced team, which is also weird to me.

[EponiCo]

Look, for newbies and casuals, you simply don't understand it (no, really, read the second part if you are broke).
Without the upkeep system you'd grind a long time before you get all your top stuff and then constantly rape everyone (and rage and banpoll at everyone who stops you before you get 10 kills ... lol calm & cool, but yeah, I raged myself often enough). This kills the fun for everyone who wants to make a themed build (RPG?) instead of grind grind grind and swiss army or plated knight with viking shield and mongol sabre. I'm ok with not being able to kill platers (or blah) with this char ... as long as I don't run into them 30 times a round. And that's were the upkeep system kicks in it's not about taking away your stuff it's about not having half the team run about with the best gear, even if they don't need it for their class at all (archer with 2h sword *cough*) (and broken gamemechanics).

With the upkeep system you can buy a plate the first moment you can get it (you'll still be weak for lack of levels) and then whine about lack of progression and loosing the stuff you bought.
Or you can play in lower and mid level gear and watch the gold roll in and then when you've fought in top levels for a while you have enough money to play in plate for a long time. It will take time until you get there, but you aren't free kill for all the time (fighters in mail were considered to be useless peasants before the patch hit).
You won't keep it forever that way, but when your gold runs out, just let your character progress again ... or make a new one, instead of expecting that everyone just rolls over and dies forever because you grinded the shit out of it.