Author Topic: Shielders vs ranged  (Read 3623 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Nagasoup

  • Knight
  • ***
  • Renown: 42
  • Infamy: 6
  • cRPG Player
    • View Profile
  • Game nicks: Sir_Donkey
Re: Shielders vs ranged
« Reply #45 on: January 17, 2012, 09:01:48 pm »
0
I dunno never been in said situation myself, but I can tell you I rarely die from arrows with a shield raised high :) But i do know I can stand and take arrows til kingdom come and thats without dodging ;)

You've never played shielder have you?  :lol:

Offline Ragni_Bross

  • Knight
  • ***
  • Renown: 69
  • Infamy: 54
  • cRPG Player
  • "At the end of a smile there's a laugh and a half"
    • View Profile
  • Faction: Militia
  • Game nicks: Militia_Iwarad
Re: Shielders vs ranged
« Reply #46 on: January 17, 2012, 09:18:42 pm »
0
I'm a shielder and I'd say that our biggest enemy isn't archers and crossbowmen but lame ass AGI-whoring über-buckler- lamers :P Everything we can do they can do better. Block arrows check, block everything else, check. It makes no sense at all. Bucklers were used commonly, yea, but that's because they were easy to carry around not because they were more efficient than real fucking shields.

Vikingr, the only mod with somewhat realistic and fair combat, has the shields all right. If your shield is too smal to cover your entire body, you risk getting hit. If you cover your head you might get hit in your legs and vice versa. MAKES PERFECT SENSE! I'm a shielder (I prefer to use cheaper, better looking shields that actually go with my outfit rather than whatever has the best stats) and I say make it so. Not only does it take quite some skill to be able to block every single incoming blow with a small buckler, especially when you're attacked by multiple opponents, but it takes ninja-like skills to block incoming missiles with a shield the size of a dinner plate. If the shields actually worked this way in cRPG big shields would actually be usefull. Why d'you think crossbowmen carried pavises and not bucklers?

Nerf bucklers.

Offline Lorenzo_of_Iberia

  • Baron
  • ****
  • Renown: 130
  • Infamy: 35
  • cRPG Player
    • View Profile
  • Faction: Peloponnesian League
  • Game nicks: Lorenzo_of_Numidia , PL_Hoplitai_Lorenzo
Re: Shielders vs ranged
« Reply #47 on: January 17, 2012, 09:19:12 pm »
+1
You've never played shielder have you?  :lol:

I play hoplite build with a loyal crew of hoplites recently but have played solo for 2 months now :P I keep my shield high and I dont take damage from arrows, at least if I dont push too far :D
Your local Jav Cav

Looking for like Minded Hoplites? Look no further - http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,22631.0.html

Offline Nagasoup

  • Knight
  • ***
  • Renown: 42
  • Infamy: 6
  • cRPG Player
    • View Profile
  • Game nicks: Sir_Donkey
Re: Shielders vs ranged
« Reply #48 on: January 18, 2012, 04:43:48 am »
0
I play hoplite build with a loyal crew of hoplites

I play hoplite too! Are you on NA? I want to play with you guys  :mrgreen:

Offline Konrax

  • Count
  • *****
  • Renown: 281
  • Infamy: 107
  • cRPG Player
    • View Profile
  • Game nicks: Konrax of Chaos
Re: Shielders vs ranged
« Reply #49 on: January 18, 2012, 05:18:37 am »
0


They should add some kind of exhaustion. You will have a hard time targeting anything properly if you just ran around for a minute or draw the bow every second. Same for inf who holds a heavy hammer overhead for minutes.

I said it a bunch of times now.

Ranged can out pace shielders because of weight penatlies of shield and the heavier armour most shieders wear.

The solution is to revert the damage back to where it was before, and then add an athletics delay when aiming / firing / drawing a ranged weapon. Something like 3 second delay on/after any of these activities would be a huge balance between melee and range without the need to overnerf the damage till its not even really viable.

Range needs to choose, shoot, or run, but not both back to back which gives us the current kiting situation. 2 archers can easily kite 1 shielder to the point where they can't possible block both firing arcs while easily out pacing them and being safe from harm.

For those who say its a lame fix or unrealistic are not looking at the big picture, and are incorrect.

First off it would promote team play more, by range depending on melee for protection to be able to fire at targets without being harassed in melee.

Second it wouldn't nerf their speed, only when they can utilize it, so yes range specialists will fall back and retreat when they notice a significant threat. However, if you were to successfully ambush them while they are firing they will have a harder time escaping unscathed.

Lastly, shooting a bow, firing an xbow, and throwing a weapon are all rather exhausting activities IRL so if your gripe is that its unrealistic, then your wrong. I wouldn't say you would be exhausted immediately, but each has their own reason why you can't just start sprinting immediately after firing it a few times. Without endurance I think this is the only fair way to keep the classes core utility in tact (range power) while balancing it against a real counter (mobility).

I don't want to see the melee capabilities reduced further either because that will just promote being a pure build instead of allowing room for hybrids either.

EDIT: The athletics delay could only effect certain classes of range weapons as well. Fast but low damage bows may not be effected by the athletics delay, same with the light throwing weapons and maybe the lightest cross bow. This would add an alternative utility to them as mobile infantry range assault type classes instead of being able to do this with ANY range weapon.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2012, 05:21:14 am by Konrax »

Offline Overdriven

  • Marshall
  • ********
  • Renown: 828
  • Infamy: 223
  • cRPG Player Sir Black Pawn
    • View Profile
  • Faction: Great Khans
  • Game nicks: GK_Overdriven
Re: Shielders vs ranged
« Reply #50 on: January 18, 2012, 09:35:20 am »
0
I play hoplite too! Are you on NA? I want to play with you guys  :mrgreen:
EU I'm afraid  :)
http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,22631.60.html

Offline Ylca

  • Count
  • *****
  • Renown: 183
  • Infamy: 68
  • cRPG Player
    • View Profile
  • Faction: LLJK
  • Game nicks: YlcaTheTerrible, YlcaTheJuggler
Re: Shielders vs ranged
« Reply #51 on: January 18, 2012, 11:52:33 am »
+2
Jesus H. Christ, just remove archery already so people can see why all the melee only servers were completely unpopulated a week after they went up.

As a heavy cav player i say nerf all archery (again) and pikes too while you're at it. Anything that can stop my class is OP, in my humble opinion.

Offline Mala

  • Earl
  • ******
  • Renown: 412
  • Infamy: 61
  • cRPG Player A Gentleman and a Scholar
    • View Profile
Re: Shielders vs ranged
« Reply #52 on: January 18, 2012, 02:21:58 pm »
+1
...

Vikingr, the only mod with somewhat realistic and fair combat, has the shields all right. ...

Naa, the movements there are so awfull slow.

Anyway, the trick is hand-eye coordination.

PS: We need a shield bash.

Offline CrazyCracka420

  • Minute Valuable Contributor
  • Strategus Councillor
  • **
  • Renown: 1950
  • Infamy: 794
  • cRPG Player Sir White Pawn A Gentleman and a Scholar
  • Welp
    • View Profile
  • Faction: Vaegirs
  • Game nicks: Huseby
  • IRC nick: Steam name: crazycracka420
Re: Shielders vs ranged
« Reply #53 on: January 18, 2012, 05:07:31 pm »
0
I don't see the problem.  Ranged are already basically a support class (not kill whores) for the most part.  You need to hit people usually at least 3-4 times in the body to kill (probably more now after the patch).  So generally I think of ranged like hoplites, they are very useful support class, but not necessarily getting the glory.  I don't think they (or any other class) needs any more nerfs.  All c-rpg has seen is one nerf daisy chained onto another nerf, and another, and another, and another.  I've never had an archer build, but they are not overpowered.

That being said, I don't see a problem with shields vs archers.  Cut off the angles, or if you can't, then wait for MOTF (behind a building or tree or in a shield wall). 
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
 - Stolen from Macropussy