Author Topic: Balance HBS, longsword and katana.  (Read 1575 times)

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Offline mulas

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Balance HBS, longsword and katana.
« on: July 16, 2011, 01:27:21 am »
+10
The Heavy bastard sword has the exact same stat as long sword, only 1 less length which is nothing, yet price is 1200 lower.

Katana cost almost twice as HBS, yet the stats suck bad. it's stabbing dmg is only 2 more than a wooden practice sword, it's length and damage are worse, the only thing better is +3 speed. I don't think that justify the double price. Katana needs a buff or lower the price.

Offline DrKronic

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Re: Balance HBS, longsword and katana.
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2011, 03:39:51 am »
+8
been beaten to the ground, and doubt anyone is going to do anything, because of the tyranny of the majority mentality we have about nerfs here

(low weight's equal stun, heavy bastard a great weapon because basically just a heavy longsword, I really wish I had a masterwork bastard sword, I think it is right to have weapons from low tier to high tier have basically similar performance however with small steps up, and that's been the balance philosiphy in all the classes really)

atm the Katana is from 6 to 11 less length than the other "hand a half/bastard" class weapons, weighs less than any of them(stuns off basically everything, always double blocking), does equal cut to the cheapest one with a pierce attack that is so anemic, especially in the age of lordly plate+lordly gauntlets, has a very high upkeep cost and just isn't worth using when u compare it to anything else in the same weapon class, I mean no one will trade for a katana, and they have good reason not to, its getting to where you can compare it with 1h's like the best cleaver or niewendoninjaturtlesword and be like (you know because of the weight/same cut damage I may as well use this thing, or in the case of the chinablade you get more speed and nearly same cut with animations that nearly always land on the face)



Masterwork Katana

weapon length: 95
weight: 1.3
difficulty: 9
speed rating: 102 (Kronic Proposal to 101 by MW, but also nerf speed of high end chinese 1handers as well to balance overall melee)
weapon length: 95
thrust damage: 17 pierce (honestly should be 20-21 by MW)
swing damage: 38 cut (really should be at 40 by MW)
slots: 2
Price: 9,845


Masterwork Longsword
weapon length: 106
weight: 1.8
difficulty: 10
speed rating: 99
weapon length: 106
thrust damage: 25 pierce
swing damage: 39 cut
slots: 2
Secondary Mode

Price: 6,993

Masterwork Heavy Bastard Sword
weapon length: 105
weight: 2
difficulty: 10
speed rating: 99
weapon length: 105
thrust damage: 25 pierce
swing damage: 39 cut
slots: 2
Secondary Mode
Price:5480

Masterwork Bastard Sword
weapon length: 101
weight: 1.8
difficulty: 9
speed rating: 100
weapon length: 101
thrust damage: 23 pierce
swing damage: 38 cut
slots: 2
Secondary Mode
Price: 4012




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Offline Belmont

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Re: Balance HBS, longsword and katana.
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2011, 04:05:33 am »
+7
I doubt anything will be done to rebalance the katana at this point because I have already suggested stats very similar to the ones provided by Kronic and it was shot down by Urist.

<Urist> the current katana stays at it is. you can try organising another, bigger katana model that would deserve your stats. maybe with 99 speed. that would then be a new item entry

While the weapon is, as Urist says, fine that does not mean it is balanced. The weapon only becomes good if you build your character around it, making it a niche weapon. I have to say that I am very disappointed at the reason I was given by Urist, which is that the weapon is too popular and balancing it would make it a regular weapon and they want to avoid that. There are many popular weapons but katana is definitely not one of them because you see a lot more great swords on the field, particularly Danish and German. I have played cRPG for over a year now and almost all katana users are from a clan with a Japanese theme, which is not surprising. Many clans have an European theme and use weapons such as Danish Greatsword, Longsword, Highland Claymore, etc, yet they are not deemed "too popular" and left untouched because they would become regular otherwise. I do not mind having to pay much more upkeep because they are supposed to be exotic weapons but they shouldn't be completely inferior to other choices in the field. As an example I want to point at the Nodachi, it is inferior to the similarly priced Highland Claymore but it is still a good weapon because it only loses one speed and thrust attack but still has slightly superior range. The katana, however, only has speed going for it and it is, without doubt, clearly worse in every other aspect to weapons in a similar and even much lower price point (bastard, heavy bastard).

If my memory does not fail me the only buff the katana has received since I started playing (more than one year ago) was the recent soak nerf for armors, which was not even targeted to buff the katana.

I know that Urist and the rest of the item (un)balance team are more than capable of doing their job right but I wonder at times if their dislike for Japanese items clouds their judgment when dealing with these weapons.

/end weeaboo lobby rant, no tl;dr version.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2011, 04:11:33 am by Belmont »

Offline Belmont

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Re: Balance HBS, longsword and katana.
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2011, 07:23:13 pm »
+1
This deserves a bump.

Offline Roran Hawkins

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Re: Balance HBS, longsword and katana.
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2011, 07:26:48 pm »
+1
+1

Offline Ninja_Khorin

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Re: Balance HBS, longsword and katana.
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2011, 11:51:42 pm »
+1
If my memory does not fail me the only buff the katana has received since I started playing (more than one year ago) was the recent soak nerf for armors, which was not even targeted to buff the katana.
Did gain +1 speed at one point after the upkeep patch. Then got nerfed next patch, and the next, and the next. Etc.

And yes, it is a very niche weapon only fit for duelling. And even there it doesn't have an edge. <---- The pun is so epic katana should be buffed.

Offline Belmont

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Re: Balance HBS, longsword and katana.
« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2011, 09:07:26 pm »
+1
Bump to first page.

Offline Ninja_Khorin

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Re: Balance HBS, longsword and katana.
« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2011, 12:42:17 pm »
+2
Masterwork Katana <---- 3 times heirloomed
weapon length: 95
weight: 1.3
difficulty: 9
speed rating: 102
thrust damage: 17 pierce
swing damage: 38 cut
slots: 2
Price: 9,845

Bastard Sword
weapon length: 101
weight: 1.8
difficulty: 9
speed rating: 99
thrust damage: 21 pierce
swing damage: 35 cut
slots: 2
Secondary Mode

Price: 4012 gold

Go to a duel server and swing these swords for a few minutes and see the difference in swing count. I dare you.
Bastard has 4 more pierce unloomed. Katana has 3 more cut 3 times loomed. So okay, that's not even, but let's call it even for the sake of argument.

Bastard Sword has 6 more length, 0.5 more weight(you get stunned less), Secondary Mode, to counter 3 more speed. All for the high price of 5833 gold less than the katana.

And this is a 3 times heirloomed weapon compared to a non-loomed weapon. If not for the style I've chosen, I'd take a normal bastard over masterwork katana every day of the week, it's so god damn awkward to get stunned 50% of the time when someone holds an attack, which all the good fighters do.

I'll end this on a positive note:
Thanks for the new katana animation. Love it  :oops:
« Last Edit: July 22, 2011, 12:47:41 pm by Ninja_Khorin »

Offline BlackMilk

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Re: Balance HBS, longsword and katana.
« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2011, 03:18:52 pm »
+1
wow, thats just unfair

Offline Mr_Oujamaflip

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Re: Balance HBS, longsword and katana.
« Reply #9 on: September 05, 2011, 10:51:26 pm »
+1
I recently reverted to a Longsword having used a Katana for most of my 2h alt's existance due to my guy's style. Stats are better almost across the board.

Nodachi is also kinda fail.