Please reconsider the balance on 2h use

[Vodner]

You mean that 1h has problem with hitting kicking person? Well, If 1h can't outrange kick with thrust, player can always make step to the right (left not always working).

The 1h has to predict the kick for a thrust to be useful; there isn't time to reflexively stab somebody who kicks. Even then, several people are reporting that you can simply start your down-block before the kick to block stabs.

[Leshma]

Even then, several people are reporting that you can simply start your down-block before the kick to block stabs.

That won't be possible anymore, in beta client block, just like chambered attack, are cancelled when kick animation starts.

[Phew]

My only complaint with hiltslash is that it makes fights look like a squaredance instead of a real swordfight. Real medieval swordfights probably involved two knights facing each other near the maximum reach of their swords. cRPG swordfights involve trying to keep your opponent as close to your hip as possible, off to the side, so that you can land full damage hits without having to wait for the swing animation to connect.

Why on earth should it be a tactical advantage to face away from your opponent while you are swinging at them? This is just silly. All weapons should do minimal damage in the first 20-30% of their swing; physics dictates as such.

[Elindor]

My only complaint with hiltslash is that it makes fights look like a squaredance instead of a real swordfight. Real medieval swordfights probably involved two knights facing each other near the maximum reach of their swords. cRPG swordfights involve trying to keep your opponent as close to your hip as possible, off to the side, so that you can land full damage hits without having to wait for the swing animation to connect.

Why on earth should it be a tactical advantage to face away from your opponent while you are swinging at them? This is just silly. All weapons should do minimal damage in the first 20-30% of their swing; physics dictates as such.

This.

[Smoothrich]

My only complaint with hiltslash is that it makes fights look like a squaredance instead of a real swordfight. Real medieval swordfights probably involved two knights facing each other near the maximum reach of their swords. cRPG swordfights involve trying to keep your opponent as close to your hip as possible, off to the side, so that you can land full damage hits without having to wait for the swing animation to connect.

Why on earth should it be a tactical advantage to face away from your opponent while you are swinging at them? This is just silly. All weapons should do minimal damage in the first 20-30% of their swing; physics dictates as such.

Real swordfights were people either instantly dying after 1-2 swings from a fatal riposte or two plated dudes punching the shit out of each other while trying to stab someone in the eye socket or armpit with their sidearm since swords (except the katana) just bounce off armor anyways.

This is a videogame and pr0 gamers are going to learn the engine inside and out and do nothing but abuse animations and mechanics to get an advantage.  Hilt slashing is a prime example of gaming the game in this fashion, and cmp has shown the concept and coding to deal with it a bit by hilts having a different damage value for hilt swings.

Though I think the primary thing we should take from this thread is to nerf strength builds and make WPF matter more in swing times then animation abuse.

[Elindor]

...and cmp has shown the concept and coding to deal with it a bit by hilts having a different damage value for hilt swings.

Though I think the primary thing we should take from this thread is to nerf strength builds and make WPF matter more in swing times then animation abuse.

woot cmp

and +1 on the second part Smooth

[Phew]

Though I think the primary thing we should take from this thread is to nerf strength builds and make WPF matter more in swing times then animation abuse.

So increase sweet spot size (i.e. allow hiltslashing) only at high Weapon Master/wpf? If so, I like the idea. The problem is right now, strength 2H-ers incur no swing speed penalty for neglecting agi/wpf, they just turn sideways and the weapon hits for full damage before it has even moved an inch through its animation.

I don't like the idea of buffing agility/wpf so much that ninja-types can attack so fast that you can't counter-attack, but restricting hiltslash to high wpf seems like a great compromise to me.

[Leshma]

Flattening wpf curve to allow 200+ wpf build is horrible idea. Better would be to make it even steeper (especially after 180 wpf mark) but give more points per WM level.

About pole vs 1h vs 2h balance, I agree that is borked atm. Mainly because 2H have reach (poles also have decent reach), damage (poles have slightly higher), speed (1H have higher speed but that's compensated by short reach) and most importantly 2H have wonderful animation which are great on all four directions, where thrust is just too good.

Compared to 2H, poles have 3 1/2 good animations, and 1H have 2 good animations (one good and second are right swing and overhead combined).

[Gurnisson]

Flattening wpf curve to allow 200+ wpf build is horrible idea. Better would be to make it even steeper (especially after 180 wpf mark) but give more points per WM level.

About pole vs 1h vs 2h balance, I agree that is borked atm. Mainly because 2H have reach (poles also have decent reach), damage (poles have slightly higher), speed (1H have higher speed but that's compensated by short reach) and most importantly 2H have wonderful animation which are great on all four directions, where thrust is just too good.

Compared to 2H, poles have 3 1/2 good animations, and 1H have 2 good animations (one good and second are right swing and overhead combined).

1H has 4 good animations, 2H has 4, polearm has 3, at least that's what I think. I've played all the classes a long time too, but I guess it's just personal preference. I think the polearm left swing is the worst attacking direction in the game by far and the only one I don't feel very comfortable using a lot of the time.

I can understand that some people don't like the 1H thrust, even though I like it myself. Why people hate on the 1H right swing is beyond me though, I just can't see that. One of my favourite attacking animations in the game.

[Leshma]

Thrust is rubish atm, sometimes I get it right but next time even though I did the same it glances. Right swing is good at distance only, up close glances a lot.

[rustyspoon]

Thrust is rubish atm, sometimes I get it right but next time even though I did the same it glances. Right swing is good at distance only, up close glances a lot.

Honestly I love the new thrust. Old thrust glanced at close distances. New thrust glances at long distances.

Since you can now thrust at your regular fighting distance it is a FANTASTIC follow up attack. I'm constantly double-hitting people by moving to the right with a left swing, and immediately moving left and stabbing. It's sort of like a hilt slash. After that I'll often times keep circling around them and follow up with a right swing. Makes a good 3-hit combo.

I've spammed the shit out of a lot of plate baddies by doing that.

[Leshma]

It shouldn't glance at all, that's my point. Just like 2h/pole thrust that rarely glance.

[Teeth]

What is all this talk about hiltslashing? I haven't been hiltslashed a single time in the past three months. So unless my footwork magically changed or the definition of a hiltslash is completely different now, I think the devs succesfully fixed it.

[Visconti]

People still fall for hiltslashes? Thought everyone would have gotten used to them by now, its not hard to counter them  However, i do agree that full strength builds are incredibly OP

[Leshma]

I did test thrust a bit on siege bots (people actually) and it's true what rustyspoons said.

Problem is that you need to get almost into enemy model to strike successfully. Otherwise it glances. That means you have zero range on thrust which combined with length of one handed weapons makes it the most risky move in cRPG.

I did test while going full speed, avoiding enemy attack and getting into his face, stabbing. Couldn't manage to stab without speed bonus.

For me this is bullshit and should be fixed in some way.