Read at your leisure.

[Algarn]

Not really. cRPG and Melee both up the difficulty ridiculously compared to the standard melee-based game. This puts into a very tight niche like Farrix said.

From my experience the more realistic (gameplay wise) you go the less players/interest you get, even in my own projects we've gotten better reception after things were dumbed down. It's the reason Chivalry sold 200x more copies than Warband (from the stats I've gathered, could be wrong) and why BF/COD will always outsell great games like Red Orchestra and Insurgency, but this is also comparing AAA games to Indie titles which isn't fair.

With that said I think if Melee is very fluid it could possibly become an eSport type game. People love getting better and challenging themselves, like the headshot fanatics in CS. But your average player (like the friends I made try cRPG) will just get frustrated and not want to waste time becoming more skilled. One told me they want to come home from work and play games for fun, not to be frustrated. But this was in ~2011 so things may be different.

Basically that. When I get back from Uni, I want to have some fun maybe, instead of playing on empty and laggy servers, with people shittalking. How many times I wanted to mute the chat but couldn't find the damn key, and left the game for insurgency. Even if this game is frustrating, and people can act like retards aswell, it's still better, and still intense, and it also has a sense of balance allowing a lot of playstyles.

What killed crpg is age, but also an elitist/biased balance not allowing any kind of new players to come. I'm far to say Native is good, it's complete trash indeed, but cRPG used to be more new player friendly balance-wise. (Except with grind system which was hardcore).

[Thomek]

Will talk for myself (Not as a MB:G dev!).. cRPG is still lots of fun, although I don't play it as much as I used to. It still gives me those adrenaline kicks that no other game has done for me. No other games, not even huge ass grinding MMO's have been close to creating the kind of addiction cRPG has given me.

Yes, declining player numbers sucks, and IMO it happened because the inherited WB system was too hard to "Fix" and balance. Causes for player numbers declining imo:   Age + Good players abusing mechanics + Very high skill level/Player levels/Gear + Delaying trolls + Unfixable balance issues like very OP cav + Newbie unfriendly == Many Unfixable gameplay issues.   (Can be rectified and fixed in MB:G!)

I don't think us vets noticed it so much, because i.ex I was always on the front part of the wave, keeping up with the development skill, gear and level wise. For me, it was always fun, built a unique char that could keep up and deal with anything.

So I think, cRPG is the best thing that ever happened in modern gaming. Even with its flaws.

Problem is that majority of gamers don't know or realize this!

Here we have the perfect e-sport candidate: a unique/unknown game TYPE requiring reflexes, precision and knowledge deeper than all multiplayer games out there. (That I'm aware of.)

As a concept:  Customization (Aka player recognition) + Great MP melee combat has the potential to be huge. Not as big as FPS because of the FPS ultra simple point and click gameplay, but very near. It's going to appeal to relatively serious gamers, which there are more and more of anyway in this world.

I tried to sell this idea in the KS video, perhaps naively so. People don't _get_ the power of this Customization+Melee combo at a glance. Perhaps it's too complicated to explain in such short time, perhaps I'm a retard for not being able to explain it in the video, IDK. Probably my perspective is also just coloured by being part of this community for so long and not being able to see the game "from the outside".

Anyway.. I still think the problem is in communication, not in the game type. We need to make something where players immediately understands and gets into the game, understanding the power of the idea, the fun and challenge to be had. Then we need to sell and package it in a way players like.

As in what happens AFTER KS.. We all probably have our thoughts, but I think it's most fruitful to talk about it once KS is over, and we have had time to look at it from a distance. After new years. As many people have pointed out, the options are many, and I hope we manage to pull an ace out of our sleeves in the last few days. We'll see.

[pogosan]

[Farrix]

Will talk for myself (Not as a MB:G dev!).. cRPG is still lots of fun, although I don't play it as much as I used to. It still gives me those adrenaline kicks that no other game has done for me. No other games, not even huge ass grinding MMO's have been close to creating the kind of addiction cRPG has given me.

Yes, declining player numbers sucks, and IMO it happened because the inherited WB system was too hard to "Fix" and balance. Causes for player numbers declining imo:   Age + Good players abusing mechanics + Very high skill level/Player levels/Gear + Delaying trolls + Unfixable balance issues like very OP cav + Newbie unfriendly == Many Unfixable gameplay issues.   (Can be rectified and fixed in MB:G!)

I don't think us vets noticed it so much, because i.ex I was always on the front part of the wave, keeping up with the development skill, gear and level wise. For me, it was always fun, built a unique char that could keep up and deal with anything.

So I think, cRPG is the best thing that ever happened in modern gaming. Even with its flaws.

Problem is that majority of gamers don't know or realize this!

Here we have the perfect e-sport candidate: a unique/unknown game TYPE requiring reflexes, precision and knowledge deeper than all multiplayer games out there. (That I'm aware of.)

As a concept:  Customization (Aka player recognition) + Great MP melee combat has the potential to be huge. Not as big as FPS because of the FPS ultra simple point and click gameplay, but very near. It's going to appeal to relatively serious gamers, which there are more and more of anyway in this world.

I tried to sell this idea in the KS video, perhaps naively so. People don't _get_ the power of this Customization+Melee combo at a glance. Perhaps it's too complicated to explain in such short time, perhaps I'm a retard for not being able to explain it in the video, IDK. Probably my perspective is also just coloured by being part of this community for so long and not being able to see the game "from the outside".

Anyway.. I still think the problem is in communication, not in the game type. We need to make something where players immediately understands and gets into the game, understanding the power of the idea, the fun and challenge to be had. Then we need to sell and package it in a way players like.

As in what happens AFTER KS.. We all probably have our thoughts, but I think it's most fruitful to talk about it once KS is over, and we have had time to look at it from a distance. After new years. As many people have pointed out, the options are many, and I hope we manage to pull an ace out of our sleeves in the last few days. We'll see.

Hey man, there is no reason at all to beat yourself up. We all love this game. Its fuckin epic. The only people that talk real shit about this game are the trolls and they are just attention whores with no sense of empathy. There is no problem with CRPG. To spend our mental efforts trying to figure out why our mod is dieing is a supreme waste of intellectual effort. Its old. Old things die. No matter how many Viagra pills you pump into this mod, that dick is gonna go limp before any of us want it to.

The legitimate concern which I have is communication. You need someone strictly focused on public relations who's only job is to spread the good word. You have a product that is appealing, especially for those of us who have no life besides becoming masters of our virtual worlds. You can sell it to the real gamers. What you need to do, is sell it to the wannabe's and that means making the ease of entrance a little less formidable. Yes CRPG is the epitome of non-newb friendly but I would venture to say that is mainly because of the niche that this game fills...the majority of players are long term vets. More people playing in MBG would mitigate this effect almost to the point where it is inconsequential. My suggestion would be to have a format of gameplay which is specifically tailored for low level players. Somewhere that becoming king of the newbs is not so huge of an order. Hopefully that would encourage them to grow some balls and enter the game/community at large. DTV is a great example of what I am saying. Newbs could play and feel as if they are progressing in skill and in the game without feeling as if they were competing with the legit players. Maybe something in MBG with AI/Bots could make the transition from newb to vet a little less intimidating.

[Xant]

I was always on the front part of the wave, keeping up with the development skill, gear and level wise

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[Grumbs]

Hey man, there is no reason at all to beat yourself up. We all love this game. Its fuckin epic. The only people that talk real shit about this game are the trolls and they are just attention whores with no sense of empathy. There is no problem with CRPG. To spend our mental efforts trying to figure out why our mod is dieing is a supreme waste of intellectual effort. Its old. Old things die. No matter how many Viagra pills you pump into this mod, that dick is gonna go limp before any of us want it to.

The legitimate concern which I have is communication. You need someone strictly focused on public relations who's only job is to spread the good word. You have a product that is appealing, especially for those of us who have no life besides becoming masters of our virtual worlds. You can sell it to the real gamers. What you need to do, is sell it to the wannabe's and that means making the ease of entrance a little less formidable. Yes CRPG is the epitome of non-newb friendly but I would venture to say that is mainly because of the niche that this game fills...the majority of players are long term vets. More people playing in MBG would mitigate this effect almost to the point where it is inconsequential. My suggestion would be to have a format of gameplay which is specifically tailored for low level players. Somewhere that becoming king of the newbs is not so huge of an order. Hopefully that would encourage them to grow some balls and enter the game/community at large. DTV is a great example of what I am saying. Newbs could play and feel as if they are progressing in skill and in the game without feeling as if they were competing with the legit players. Maybe something in MBG with AI/Bots could make the transition from newb to vet a little less intimidating.

Since the patch of destiny I've seen more new names than ever, but the server is still less populated. The thing is, people didn't play cRPG because they didn't like it. When you make big changes to a game you will inevitably remove some things that drew people to it. If those changes don't also bring other people into the mod then you will get problems like now. It seems atm we just need to lessen some of the bigger changes and people might find the mod fun again. I think the game has got less fun as both a melee player and a ranged player. I'd give armour a heavy buff to start with and then maybe increase ranged damage a bit. The game isn't really quite as forgiving as before and that might be turning people off. Also I couldn't imagine anyone retiring in the game now. Even if you level up faster the high level guys will make the game no fun to play

[Leshma]

That can be easily fixed. Lower the maximum achievable level by 1 (level 37 which should stay at 100 mil XP, put extraordinary XP reqs for level 38, for example 6 billion XP, instead of 650 mil some people already reached). Raise the retirement level to 36 (8 million XP as it is now). Last but not the least, unlock gen bonus and introduce 4th loom level which requires 3 looms points from +3 or 6 looms points from regular. Combined with balance changes you mentioned (hard cap on maximum wpf would be nice and raising reqs for weapons, also changing some weapon stats to balance them), mod would get a purpose again which ultimately always was nothing but grind.

[RandomDude]

I must of played M&B/Warband for many years in total and it's still a game I play most days, either SP or MP.

Like Thomek said, I still love the adrenaline rush I get from playing in certain situations.

I wanted to come back to c-RPG but it wasn't fun for me any more, not when compared to neoGK siege or even the deathmatch servers.

If some talented people were able to take some time out and work on new modes/changes to c-rpg, maybe where skill/animation abuse wasn't a factor, the population could grow again.

As far as M:BG goes, I'd like to see it come to fruition too. I hope it's a game I come to love as much as M&B/Warband.

[Farrix]

For the devs: Let CRPG die. I hate to say that, but to be responsible, we need to recognize that there is limited resources and limited time to invest. This is true for everyone everywhere. I would rather see you invest your limited resources into a new product. I love crpg, and I'll still be playing it for quite some time in the future but we as a community oughta face the facts that it is on its way out.

Also for the devs...Seems like the most common advice from the community is in the field of public relations. Could you give us a little taste of your thoughts as far as publicity is concerned?