a High end dagger - A Stiletto/rondel or dirk

[Cyclopsided]

For a long time I've been searching for a dagger/dirk/stiletto model already made in another mod that I could get permission to borrow for crpg but I have yet to find one. If anyone knows of a good dagger model, please leave a link and some info in this thrad.
(Because I don't know how to model  )
So, really this is probably a dead end topic without a model. I guess I am hoping someone here knows how to model and would be interested in modeling one, if not I'll close this topic eventually.

The whole point of this thread is so that we can have a higher end, more expensive and damaging dagger. Particularly a rondel or stiletto which were stab only (as In they were garbage for slashing and weren't used for that at all). Currently, we have very weak daggers that are cheap weapons used by peasants, they even have less thrust damage than other one handed weapons like the long espada!

A problem for the weapon I thought for a long time is the fact that daggers, historically, were used underhand NOT overhand as they are portrayed in game by the dagger/long dagger. It would not be a big problem to just continue that trend as nobody would care and nobody has cared. Alternatively, the weapon could be held underhand but only given an overhead attack which would work with the current animations.
**overhand vs underhand for people who don't know: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ys6zON34qGg&t=7m46s

Now, when it comes to balancing said item I spent a lot more time thinking. [I really need to find a model before making a thread. I tried this time though, I swear.]
I have a few points about making it a balanced dagger, where enough sacrifices are made that it can have an attack of 33 pierce, comparable to an awlpike.
1. No side swings, stab only. If overhand model, it is thrust attack only. If underhand model, it is an overhead attack only [2h overhand animation with weapon length of 1]. This means it gets only one hard hitting direction.
2. Only 105 speed, Not as fast as the other daggers which are over 110+ speed.
3. It is a bastard weapon. If no shield, it is used with 2 hands. If used onehand [with a shield] it will do less damage as you don't have your other hand helping to drive it in.
4. Manual blocking. I don't know if it should have it or not. It probably should since otherwise you'd have to dodge side attacks since you can't even chamber them without that attack direction. I don't think it would be OP with blocking.
5. It uses up one slot. It is not 0 slot.

Post thoughts, ideas, and constructive criticism. Lots of criticism is welcome. I am looking for any dagger model still so I can give a real suggestion on a weapon being added.
That is all. I may be being too hard on it and nerfing it too much. Everything is subject to change and nothing is going to happen without a model.

[cutsomecheesewithmybow]

So basically you want a 2h/1h with 27% more stab base damage than the german and with a speed exceeding that of a katana?

[Cyclopsided]

So basically you want a 2h/1h with 27% more stab base damage than the german and with a speed exceeding that of a katana?

This is a weapon with maybe 45 length, a dagger that has one attack direction; and MAYBE can manual block.
Did you read?

[Kafein]

Unable to block and 0 slot.

[22nd_King_Plazek]

A weapon like this could be fun.

It would be new and different though, so hard to say.

[Paul]

I tried to give the long dagger block ability while lowering speed but I was lobbyed down by the other item balancers.

[cutsomecheesewithmybow]

This is a weapon with maybe 45 length, a dagger that has one attack direction; and MAYBE can manual block.
Did you read?

Yeah I read it and the only image I could get is a massive DPS that reduces the gameplay to blocking first hit or first two hits depending on opponents build and spamming stab while hugging. Short length either makes this weapon capable of overriding the auto miss that happens if you try to stab someone with not enough distance between you or renders the weapons useless. Even if you remove the blocking ability such a powerful tool would only re-introduce what katana builds were a year ago. Either way I don't like it.
ed. Even with a shield this weapon basically deals german greatsword's base damage & it's just wrong.

[MouthnHoof]

Dagger stab is just as deadly or even more than a sword stab. Length (beyond the pocket knife) and weight play little role. This is the real knight killer.

[Keshian]

Why do you think greatsword should be the ultimate stabbing tool???  In medieval times most eruopean swords were almost exclusively used for slashing with a dull tip and sharp edges (not until renaissance that stabbing swords like rapiers became popular).  If you wanted to stab someone you used a very short weapon, like a dagger that had a sharpened point.  It makes sense greatsword have the highest cutting damage among non-polearms in the game (polearms are much longer so more damaging but slower), but it never really made sense to have high stabbing/pierce damage. 

Would like some more assassin's and close-in fighting tools, kind of bored how common you see people with really long sword backpedaling spamming or only doing stabs for the reach and hoping to kill everyone without ever trying to block.  I agree long dagger should be able to parry other weapons (block stun should easily cover most people's concern about speed), as most two-weapon duelists during renaissance use a daggger or stiletto as their parrying tool.  Any weapon with 45 length can parry another weapon, just might face serious block stun against almost anything heavier than a longsword.

[Jacko]

Dagger stab is just as deadly or even more than a sword stab. Length (beyond the pocket knife) and weight play little role. This is the real knight killer.

Sure, let's just add griping and advanced hand to hand combat first, then it surely is as deadly as a longsword.

[Lady_Cicilia_Rosewood]

I would suggest you keep swinging action capable, so you can do chamber blocks

[Cyclopsided]

I would suggest you keep swinging action capable, so you can do chamber blocks

I suppose. A stiletto would be rather bad for swings and would be quite blunt on a hit around like 12 blunt damage ahahahaha.
but it would stab the hardest.

I tried to give the long dagger block ability while lowering speed but I was lobbyed down by the other item balancers.

I don't think blocking is the problem. it is the lack of damage. It should do more damage at the cost of being able to block.
the problem is balancing that vs. when used with a shield, it needs to be a bastard weapon to suffer shield penalty to bring it in line with other 1h when used with a shield. Changing the long dagger in such a radical way would be odd, so i am proposing a separate high end dagger.

Unable to block and 0 slot.

it either gets side attack directions making chambers possible [albeit low damage bad swings] or it gets manual blocking.

Now, the whole point is to make this a higher end dagger -- not a low end weapon like other 0 slot weapons. It should be good enough that it deserves to be a one slot weapon, or it should not be added to the game.

[EyeBeat]

I tried to give the long dagger block ability while lowering speed but I was lobbyed down by the other item balancers.

Jesus christ man.  Do not touch my long dagger.  I will cry!