Let's say the ranged weight nerf is reverted...

[San]

How would you prefer ranged movement to be balanced instead?

After reading this:

Quiver weights are a crude workaround to slow down archers. I don't like it either but it has to be there for now. Also, those depleted uranium tips are quite heavy.

Seems to me like simply increasing the quiver weights may be changed at some point if the opportunity becomes available. Could be months, maybe even never, but I think it'd be nice if we could think of some things and give balancers some nice ideas to think about.


I saw this idea before, but I agree with this:

I think that if you have a ranged weapon equipped or on your back, you should lose sprinting mode. Losing sprinting mode only affects kiting and shouldn't affect melee fighting all that much. That way, ranged would have great short-term acceleration and ranged-melee hybrids would be more fun without having to give them extra wpf for melee and the like. It would also take additionally more time to reach and occupy strong defensive positions on battle mode without the help of melee and cav.

I think this would be very simple if modding allows for such a change while keeping ranged strengths.

A harsher and more complex additional option is including speed tweaks while moving and shooting/throwing. I think that it may have quite a few effects on ranged vs cav and ranged vs ranged, but it might be good, maybe even necessary, for ranged vs infantry. That would limit the amount of shots that can be fired while running away, but would definitely make it less fun for ranged. Should speed up moving when blocking for shielders instead. *nudge nudge*

[MURDERTRON]

Turn everyone else into Centaurs.

Or just un nerf lancing angles.

[XyNox]

- increase bow draw animation ( equipping bow ) from the usual ~1 sec to about 2.5 sec
- while draw ( quipping bow ) animation plays = walking speed limited to 30 %

E: "draw animation" sounded a bit misleading. Drawing your bow as in switching from melee to ranged should just take longer.

That way you need to have a HUGE distance between your opponent to equip your bow and shoot before someone catches up with you. You could not simply jump out of a teamfight and switch to ranged on the fly. Then again, with no weight nerf there should be no reason to quit the melee fight in the first place.

Now just leave the weight nerf when your bow is equipped but revert it as soon as you switch to melee weapon so the rangers who actually want to engage in melee are not at a disadvantage.

[HappyPhantom]

Ok, but if we do this, can we please reduce speed of full plate crutchers as well.

[XyNox]

Ok, but if we do this, can we please reduce speed of full plate crutchers as well.

If this would be done you could get out your melee weapon and fight back, using the footwork you actually paid for, measured in points of ath.

[Jona]

If this would be done you could get out your melee weapon and fight back, using the footwork you actually paid for, measured in points of ath.

Well to be fair, she's got 250ish ping usually, being from australia and all.

However she has gotten pretty damn good at blocking, condsidering the ping difference, and being a dedicated archer. Whether or not the ping will ever allow for her to reliably strike back is another story. :/

Regardless, if nothing else, severely nerf the jumping capabilities of full plate. No reason why they can close the gap between themselves and someone running twice as fast in a single bound... they aren't superman.

[Joker86]

I see the thing like this:


- A good portion of all archers plays archer because they don't want to play infantry

- Motivating (= not forcing) those people to fight in melee will most likely fail, and they will run nonetheless

- As you apparently can't make archers stand and fight in melee, perhaps you can make infantry stop running after archers

- infantry players, like all the other classes as well, need to kill every enemy on the map in order to win, including archers and those pesky horse archers. Which means they MUST go after archers sooner or later

=> Problem


Points where you can tackle the problem:

Motivating the archers instead of forcing them to fight: Solution would be to NOT motivate but simply to force them, but I guess this is not what archers want, because it would ALWAYS have to end at a point where the archer is slower than the infantryman, or completely disabled another way when chased by infantry. Bad.

Stopping infantry of running after archers: the solution would be to not have infantry chase archers, which would mean that no kiting would take place anyway, even if technically possible. But the only way to achieve this would be to remove the requirement of killing everyone to win the game => dump battle mode.

What to replace battle mode with?

You probably have guessed my opinion: conquest moad 

[Matey]

It's been suggested before as well but; make shields better. More forcefield so shieldwalls will actually protect people other than the shielder. perhaps reduce weight on shields so shielders can chase archers down more effectively... Shielders SHOULD be a good way to counter ranged if its equal number of shielders vs equal number of archers. Right now most infantry are 2h or pole. there are some shielders around but there are only a handful of shielders who can actually put pressure on ranged... most are too slow to keep up or have shitty shields cause they dont want to lug around a huscarl (which is the ONLY good shield for reliably blocking ranged fire).

i do also think the no sprinting for ranged guys has some merit.

[Pentecost]

A pretty straightforward solution to this whole problem is to revert quiver weights to a normal level but make carrying multiple quivers function in a similar fashion to carrying multiple shields (ie enormous reduction in run speed).

This would:

1.) Encourage archers to make every shot count and serve to distinguish skillful archers from those who just spray and pray with a Horn Bow and Bodkins
2.) Make some of the cheaper arrows an attractive choice for those archers who want more ammunition without having to give up all of their mobility
3.) Not unduly penalize the handful of archers who actually have respectable melee stats as the current system does

[San]

Interesting ideas, guys. Nice to see what other people think about this. Quick workarounds aren't inherently terrible per say, but I see them as promises for a more proper fix in the future.

[Okkam]

Revert weight of quiver to normal, if character have at least 1 slot melee weapon. Because Hybrid with Strong bow + arrows + 1slot\2hweapon must be playable too.

[Jack1]

The main problem when arrows/bolts were not heavy was all of that damn kiting. In my opinion if you take away the weight nerf then you also should:

1. Make it harder for ranged to break shields

So many times aderyn would run away just shooting into my huscarl shield eventually breaking it then shooting me.

2. Limit damage to horses/change hitting angles.

Horses can't kill a good archer. A good archer can dodge anything but an Arabian while it only takes two shots max from a rus bow to kill an Arabian. Cav used to be the only thing that would catch the nearly naked archers that endlessly kited and the horses would get dropped so fast.

Or

3. Make it so that ranged can't get more arrows.

It sucked if you got an archer out of arrows to only get it were they find two more stacks on the ground.