Author Topic: Bow and Crossbow Help  (Read 1196 times)

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Offline Breidr

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Bow and Crossbow Help
« on: August 14, 2013, 10:24:48 pm »
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So, I'm coming up on my first retirement.  My first character was a 2H Fighter.  It was fun, it was also very messy.  For my next generation I wanted to try something with a little more range.  I've got plenty of gold stocked up for new equipment and I've glanced over the builds on the forums here, but I still don't know very much.

What are the main differences between Bow and Crossbow.  I know from my own experience crossbowman seem more rare.  I was leaning towards Crossbow because it fits better into a hybrid build that can still be decent at melee if needed, but I'm not so sure.  I've got a whole level 29 to grind out, so I've got time to think about it.

Are the builds and guides on this thread still current?  The only one that was labeled "outdated" was the one archery guide I looked at.

Offline Vermilion

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Re: Bow and Crossbow Help
« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2013, 11:24:53 pm »
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Best thing to do is make a STF (skip the fun) where you can respect for no loss.

Try both xbow and bow.

Most of the builds are still pretty good (may need very slight tweaking for personal preference).

My personal experience is that xbow is boring, you have to stand still while reloading and it takes a long time. Though it is very powerful.
Bow is quicker and you can reload whilst moving, more my play style.

But it's all personal preference... You may enjoy standing still shooting one bolt every 30secs. So try a STF

Offline Templar_Steevee

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Re: Bow and Crossbow Help
« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2013, 10:02:47 am »
+1
http://forum.meleegaming.com/guides/archery-guide-fo-new-players-by-steevee/

That's new guide for archers, preety long, but with some tips and some ppk tells me it's good  :mrgreen:
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Offline Jarold

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Re: Bow and Crossbow Help
« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2013, 10:52:48 am »
+1
Use a heavy crossbow imo. Also I found this build effective. Crossbowman definitely have an advantage over archers since they can hit harder in melee and ranged without sacrificing many skill points.

STR 15
AGI 24

PS - 5
IF - 2
WM - 8
ATH - 8

Crossbow - 160
One Hand - 86

Heavy Crossbow
Warhammer
Steel Bolts

Byrnie
bascinet ( you can go pretty heavy on the head armor )
Rus cav boots
scale gauntlets

Runs fast so you can get away from cav or if you are about to get surrounded. Hits for an ok amount of damage with a warhammer if you use the speed bonus. It still accurate.

Offline Templar_Steevee

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Re: Bow and Crossbow Help
« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2013, 11:47:18 am »
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Mail gauntlets are also really good hand armor, especially for ranged.
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Offline Rico

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Re: Bow and Crossbow Help
« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2013, 01:37:12 pm »
+2
Hey there!

I played 26 generations till now; one of them was shielder. The rest was either crossbow or archer, so I hope I can help you a bit. The most important things to me are being accurate (headshots!) and fast. I will not cover 27/12 archery builds or the heavily armored arbalest sniper with only 130 wpf here.

The differences in playstyle posted by Vermilion are a nice thing to start with. The basic idea of archers reloading faster and crossbows standing still while reloading is correct. But there are several consequences to add:
- Archers shoot more often. If you are good, this means you kill more often, as you aim for the head and most of the headshots are instantly deadly.
- Archers are obvious! As you reload faster than crossbows and you cannot walk around with pulled bowstring since it would exhaust your char and make the next shot less accurate, there is no way to take cover, reload, come out and shoot, hide again. Anyone who calls archers snipers did not understand the concept of archery. You may be accurate and good, but you are never hidden (unless you are in a bush, maybe). This means you will be attacked more often. It's also the reason for lots of archer duels to happen; you will start shooting at each other and try to dodge, than the other starts to aim at where he expects you next and so do you, than both stop dodging, and you hit for the exact position again, and this can take quite a while. Until a melee player comes and backstabs one of you :D A crossbow, however, is the perfect weapon to strike out of nowhere. To do this, use the ~ key to look around while covered, pick a target, come out and shoot, hide again. If you are good, the come out and shoot takes half a second, maximum.
- Archers are better than crossbows in the open. If there is no cover at all and no shielder around, the crossbower is the one who is desperate. Archers will focus on you and you must dodge and somehow try to reload. Or better, keep your bolt and don't shoot at all to scare the archers. But that does not solve the problem, it just delays it. Archers can dance around incoming horses and shoot them while they are next to them, while crossbowers must reload stationarily and will more likely be lanced. Remember, this situation is only applicable to open fields.
- Archers are slow! 1 stack of arrows might be enough on rus bow, long bow or yumi if you plan your shots carefully. But they are rarely sufficient for faster bows. So you need to stacks of arrows, which is 10 weight each. Bolt weight is 6 per stack and mostly, one is sufficient. Bows are 2-4 while crossbows are 2.7-4.3, so crossbowers run faster. Due to common builds, it is also easier to have more athletics as a crossbower than an archer. There are people who use the speed advantage of crossbowers for medium or heavy armor, and there are people who keep the advantage and use light armor. I am one of the latter category, cuz I enjoy to be fast. It is mostly pointless to kite with crossbows, as the reload takes long. Especially on battle when you are one of the last players, don't be a dick and delay the round by running for 2 minutes, or people will kickpoll you. But that should be common sense. *Sigh, SB crossbowers on EU1* However, being fast as a crossbower allows you to switch positions easier and you have the additional speed for nice melee footwork.
- Melee: archers usually have no or almost no points left to but in PS and melee WM. Archer hybrids are in general worse than xbow hybrids at the same level. If you want melee, go xbow. But it's not too bad not to have melee, because you can use both the bow and a crossbow like a shotgun while moving towards the target. It only works in super-close range, but with high athletics and/or good dancing, the effect is amazing. As I have no PS until I'll reach highlvl (going for endbuild atm), I do the shotgun and run thing a lot. It is like a pike you can't block unless you have a shield, and even shielders are sometimes fooled.
- While archer builds are always designed around a trade-off of damage and accuracy, the crossbow users have fixed damage and just become more accurate. Every point in power draw decreases the effective wpf of an archer by 14. Take your wpf, substract 14*(x PD) and some points if you use medium or heavy armor, and you got your actual accuracy. Archers are maybe good around lvl 35/36, but under that, I am pretty sure I prefer crossbows. No trade-off, and either extra melee, or even more athl and wm.

I like crossbows more, but that's not true for everyone. The additional rate of fire on the bows is veeeery nice. So it's up to you.

My favorite archer builds are the following:
(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)

My favorite xbow builds:
(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)

Note: The second and third xbow builds are not mainstream. The mainstream xbow is the arbalest, but I don't like it. It has a delay of some miliseconds between when you released the left mouse button and the bolt actually flies. It deals only a bit more dmg than heavy, but it's much slower and much more expensive. And to max out the accuracy, you need rather 180 wpf+ than the wpf you need for heavy. But most people prefer the additional damage of the arbalest, which is good and legit.
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Offline Breidr

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Re: Bow and Crossbow Help
« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2013, 05:57:09 pm »
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I found this in the solid builds section:

   Strength: 18
    Agility: 21
    Hit points: 59

    Skills to attributes: 8

    Ironflesh: 3
    Power Strike: 6
    Shield: 0
    Athletics: 7
    Riding: 0
    Horse Archery: 0
    Power Draw: 0
    Power Throw: 0
    Weapon Master: 7

    One Handed: 100
    Two Handed: 1
    Polearm: 1
    Archery: 1
    Crossbow: 146
    Throwing: 1

I noticed that it takes strength and Iron Flesh, and Power Strike, as well as more 1 Handed WPFs, at the expense of some Athletics, Weapon Master, and Crossbow.  I'm sure what the difference is here, can someone enlighten me?  I'm leaning towards a Hybrid Crossbow build.  I don't mind the slower speed and like to plan my shots.  I also like being somewhat proficient in melee when stuff goes wrong.  I came to this game through Napoleonic Wars.  I know there is not much crossover, but I'm used to slow loading muskets, so I figured I'd give the crossbow a go.

Offline Jarold

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Re: Bow and Crossbow Help
« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2013, 08:09:28 pm »
+1
I think you'll want more wpf in your crossbow, just drop down to 80 in one hand and put more into crossbow. I used an mw arbalest it was pretty good but I didn't one shot EVER. So just go for the heavy crossbow faster reload, firing speed, accuracy(?).

Offline Templar_Steevee

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Re: Bow and Crossbow Help
« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2013, 09:34:10 pm »
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I suuport Jarolds idea, more wpf in x-bow will help you to hit more headshots, and that's the way to oneshot ppl.  And in melee you will be able to kill ppl even with low wpf, i'm doing it with 1 ps, you will have to be more patient in melee fight and don't try to spam  :D
Archer forever :D

Offline Phantasmal

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Re: Bow and Crossbow Help
« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2013, 09:57:10 am »
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Depending on the 1h sword you use, you can go lower as well. The lower limit of your melee ability is probably around 60 wpf points in 1h. The build that I used for my 1h/xbow hybrid was 15/24.

2 IF
5 PS
8 ATH
8 WM

60 1h
167 xbow

I would recommend bring the arbalest over the heavy in this situation as well. At this high of a wpf, the reload rate between the arbalest and heavy xbow is not very significant.
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Offline Gmnotutoo

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Re: Bow and Crossbow Help
« Reply #10 on: August 16, 2013, 07:10:30 pm »
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150 wpf minimum with xbow prof, after that put the remaining points wherever.

The more points you put into the the better also ironflesh isn't the most needed thing for you, running away is better. 15/24 is very feasible and 5 ps will be just fine.
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Offline Tojo

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Re: Bow and Crossbow Help
« Reply #11 on: August 16, 2013, 07:32:37 pm »
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just wanted to throw my current build in the mix.

18/21 Polearm/xbow
6 IF
6PS
7AT
7WM
120 pole wpf
left over xbow wpf


I use medium armor with Masterwork bec de corbin and a MW Hunting xbow.
This build i like because my character becomes much more versatile. I can fight most melee and keep up even if they are pure melee, but I can also kill most ranged archers with just 2 bolts from my xbow.

The MW hunting xbow reloads pretty damn fast and if you time it right you can start running and reload bow in the last second of the reload animation.

Its also really great if you like to play siege, just shoot the enemies as they come up the ladder, then pull out melee weapon when they reach top.

Only drawback so far is thatheadshots to str characters and tincans does decent dmg, but if i shoot tincans in their torso it would probably tack a whole stack of bolts...

Now i know this isnt a "ranged" build, but i personally like the ability to kill melee and the pesky archers
« Last Edit: August 16, 2013, 07:36:40 pm by Tojo »

Offline Rico

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Re: Bow and Crossbow Help
« Reply #12 on: August 16, 2013, 09:12:12 pm »
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One more hint I can give you:
N
E
V
E
R
sh00t
S
O
B
E
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.
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