The ranking system is too unfriendly to new players

[UnholyRolyPoly]

I'm a relatively new player (6 months.)   I have zero problem with any of the systems or item balances.  Looms are another carrot to dangle for new players.  If you remove them from the game you will ruin the game.  First and foremost Looms encourage everyone to retire because people who want to try out different classes want to do so with Master work gear.  Without them you will REALLY destroy the games balance and make it ten times more difficult for new players to be a part of it.  Instead of encouraging players to retire and re-class you will have a bunch of super high level players running around murdering everyone.  What hurts new players more?  Being level 16 and fighting a level 30 with fully loomed gear or being a level 16 and fighting a level 34 without gear.....?   We all know what a difference those few extra levels make.  I've retired twice and have no intention of doing it again.  At level 30 my KD was fairly even on my current build.  I hit lvl 31 and all of the sudden I'm killing twice as much as I die on average.  I would rather face an entire army of fully loomed lvl 30's than the same number of unloomed lvl 33's.  My build at lvl 30 wasn't complete.  Now at 31 it's much more well rounded and the difference is incredible.  I can't imagine what level 34 and 35 must be like. 

BTW only so many people will have the desire to work their way into this game.  Player skill is one of the most important aspects to this game.  Not everyobody who plays it is all of the sudden going to love it and play forever.  My brother and I joined about the same time.  He was boored in a few weeks and tired of getting killed over and over again.  I was not.  He's playing something else and here I am totally addicted to CRPG.  Nothing you do to balance the game is going to change that.  Nothing is going to attract people who aren't overly competitive to this game.  People who play this do it because they love to win.  They love the feeling of going one on one to clutch a x5 and beating their opponent.  Not everybody is into that kind of intense gameplay so why change the balance of the game?  It won't do anything good for anybody. 

If you want to attract new players to this mod I suggest two things....  One is implement a few more variations of DTV.  My brother and I began playing DTV and I never set foot onto Battle until I joined the Fallen.  Come up with some new and interesting Player vs AI modes which will attact new players.  Second is add some sort of RP town level to the game.  Add an element where players go onto a fixed map server and buy things like houses and other RP elements.  I don't know how difficult that would be but it would go a long way to attracting new players to the server.  It doesn't have to have any combat related elements or anything complex.  It just needs to be something fixed. 

[The_Bloody_Nine]

Good to hear. Of course removing heirlooms would only make sense combined with some leveling/level-cap overhaul.

[Joker86]

I have nothing against grinding honestly, but the use of the term RPG to designate just that isn't right. I agree cRPG is a RPG-ish because it lets you create your own character with his equipment, but not because there are levels.

Levels are usually what is contained in the common definition of the term RPG. Usually, if something does not provide the player with some kind of leveling system, it isn't considered an RPG, rather an adventure. The question if someone is playing a "character" in its initial meaning, with acting, making story-based decisions and so on is not considered in the common term RPG. In its initial meaning it is, but describing a computer game genre it definitely is not. In World of Warcraft you don't make any story based decisions which display the attitude of your character, and yet it is considered the mother of all MMORPGs and the grinding/leveling aspect of RPGs in general.

There is simply no other word to describe a game which revolves around leveling up a character.

[zagibu]

WoW the mother of all MMORPGs? Wut? It may be the star, the most popular MMORPG, but the mother? No.

But you are right, RPG applied to computer games is only very loosely defined. Some think it's already fulfilled when there is some form of character progress (Bioshock, Deus Ex), while others require the player to be able to create his own character (not play a pre-defined role like in the previously mentioned games).

[Kafein]

WoW the mother of all MMORPGs? Wut? It may be the star, the most popular MMORPG, but the mother? No.

But you are right, RPG applied to computer games is only very loosely defined. Some think it's already fulfilled when there is some form of character progress (Bioshock, Deus Ex), while others require the player to be able to create his own character (not play a pre-defined role like in the previously mentioned games).

This is nitpicking, but in Deus Ex your role isn't very tightly defined. You can make plenty of decisions that can build a detailed character.

Levels are usually what is contained in the common definition of the term RPG. Usually, if something does not provide the player with some kind of leveling system, it isn't considered an RPG, rather an adventure. The question if someone is playing a "character" in its initial meaning, with acting, making story-based decisions and so on is not considered in the common term RPG. In its initial meaning it is, but describing a computer game genre it definitely is not. In World of Warcraft you don't make any story based decisions which display the attitude of your character, and yet it is considered the mother of all MMORPGs and the grinding/leveling aspect of RPGs in general.

There is simply no other word to describe a game which revolves around leveling up a character.

I know everybody will use the word like that but it doesn't make it the right way to use it, especially when there's no possible ambiguity about the meaning of "role playing game". With words such as "racism", you have huge debates going on because the word doesn't explain its meaning, the situation of RPG is much simpler.

[Joker86]

WoW the mother of all MMORPGs? Wut? It may be the star, the most popular MMORPG, but the mother? No.

With "mother" I meant the "Big momma", not something like "the first one" or something like that. In no other RPG I think the grind and the equipment spiral are that huge as in WoW. It's the reason I stopped playing it.

I know everybody will use the word like that but it doesn't make it the right way to use it, especially when there's no possible ambiguity about the meaning of "role playing game". With words such as "racism", you have huge debates going on because the word doesn't explain its meaning, the situation of RPG is much simpler.

That's right. But we can't start suddenly to use terms like "RPG" for role playing game (or rocket propelled grenade) and "CDG" for "character development game".

But I agree, if we wanted to be percise, cRPG is a CDG, nor RPG. On the other hand, only few games would really deserve the label "RPG" with that definition.

[zagibu]

This is nitpicking, but in Deus Ex your role isn't very tightly defined. You can make plenty of decisions that can build a detailed character.

No. You are JC Denton, a nanotechnologically enhanced human UNATCO agent. The role is tightly defined. You cannot play a different character.

[Jarold]

Looms...the whole reason I play this game, PROGRESSION!

Looms are the integral part of this mod. I feel like the only people saying remove looms are the people hoarding 10 mw's!

[Kafein]

No. You are JC Denton, a nanotechnologically enhanced human UNATCO agent. The role is tightly defined. You cannot play a different character.

You can choose what kind of motivation moves you, how do you interact with people and so on. Many games don't offer that much freedom.

[[ptx]]

WoW the mother of all MMORPGs? Wut? It may be the star, the most popular MMORPG, but the mother? No.

It is the one game that most other MMORPGs that came after it have been copying more or less. If every other MMORPG can be said to be a WoW clone, then calling it the mother isn't really that unjustified?

[Tydeus]

ITT people thinking 'rpg' is a specifically defined term.

[Rumblood]

It is the one game that most other MMORPGs that came after it have been copying more or less. If every other MMORPG can be said to be a WoW clone, then calling it the mother isn't really that unjustified?

WoW is nothing more than a clone of the MMORPG's that came before it. It isn't the Mother of anything, just the slutty daughter that everyone has slept with. 

[Phew]

In WoW, good gear makes a bad player good, and bad gear makes a good player bad.

In cRPG, good gear doesn't make a bad player good, and bad gear doesn't make a good player bad.

I think that's the appeal of cRPG for many people, the fact that there is a gear progression, but skill trumps gear every time. The gear progression is almost a sub-game.