Potential WPF / WM Changes

[Tomas]

The problem with a fixed gain per WM is that it seems less rewarding to put a point into WM for higher level guys because of the increased wpf point demand for raising a high weapon skill. So while the total wpf formular is nice and linear, the actual gain seems diminishing for the leveling player. Hence the non-zero b in the current formular and the non-linear total wpf result.

It makes sense though - high WM is for hybrids not specialist spammers.

[Tomas]

(click to show/hide)

wpf_0 = 0

a = 1
b = 11

c = 0.1
d = 0.8

People ~5-6 won't notice much difference. 7 and above notice more. No WM would only be tolerable for agi builds.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


I disagree that there should be diminishing returns for WM, since there is only a variation of 2-3 skill points between builds, and I feel those differences should feel important. Linearly increasing seems fine in most cases, but I am not so sure for wpf.

I wanted a more linear end, but because we can only change the deltas, a cap on the maximum wpf might be needed (200-210).

You seem to have calculated the old formula based on agility rather than level which is why your line is so low compared to mine.  To compare we've been calculating wpfs from the old formula always based on level 30 chars

[Paul]

wpf_0 = 0

a = 1
b = 11

c = 0.1
d = 0.8

You should keep the parameters as integers though because with c=0.1 and d=0.8 for example increasing agi from 3 to 4 would lead to a non-integer wpf gain(+3.3) at that point.

[San]

I was wondering if it would allow floating points at all. D is much too large at 1, though...

[Paul]

d can be zero and total wpf gain from agi will be completely linear which is fine. like in tomas' solution with c=15 and d=0.

[Phew]

Did I understand San's suggestion correctly as:

Remove "free" wpf from leveling, add wpf for each point in agility?

If so, sounds good to me. People with 5-6 weapon master would be largely unaffected, and I think these people make up the bulk of the population. 0 WM will be less viable (as it should be), and 7+ WM will be marginally better without allowing agility katana wielders to double-swing everyone.

I think any buff to WM will have to be accompanied by a nerf to weapon damage early in the swing animation for 1h left swing, polearm right swing, and both 2h sideswing directions. People already abuse turning into their swings to significantly amplify weapon speed, and it would make weapon speed and wpf matter a lot more if you require swings to actually generate some momentum before they deliver significant damage.

[Tydeus]

Cool, we have a formula. This doesn't change the fact that you guys are putting the cart before the horse. Figure out what you'd like to see done, then build the formula to simulate those results.


Questions that need asked:
At what level of wm should a player finally have more wpf than what the current is in crpg? (I say 4 WM)

Should 1 WM or 3 Agi contribute more wpf? How much more? (I think somewhere around a 2:1 ratio wpp from WM:Agi)

Linear or non-linear wpf gain from agi?('d' over 1 should probably not even be considered, 1 is also my suggested amount)

Linear or non-lenear wpf gain from wm?(probably don't want this to be linear)

Should there be an arbitrary wpf cap?(no)

Should hybrids suffer penalties of some sort? Should they get bonuses?(probably should be something here, but you can't impose it with this formula)

The last two are rather unnecessary to answer currently as they can be addressed later, but the others are imperative. I don't see how you can just plug numbers into a formula randomly and go "yeah that looks acceptable", while trying to end up with a lasting formula.

Currently what I've been playing with is something like this: wpf_0=50, a=50, b=7, c=3, d=1. It's about 1.5:1 wm wpf:agi wpf.

This is what it looks like:
visitors can't see pics , please register or login


Even with a lesser amount of wpf, I still would suggest that the ratio of wpf from wm be at least 1.5:1.

[Rhaelys]

Per Tydeus' commentary in Nditions Teamspeak:

Current tentative rough being-discussed in-development not-finalized idea for Weapon Master (WM), Weapon Proficency (WPF), and Weapon Proficiency Points (WPP) change

0 Weapon Master yields about 50 WPF for only 1 weapon class

4-5 Weapon Master yields about the same WPF for only 1 weapon class as the 4-5 Weapon Master yields under the current system

8 Weapon Master yields about 170 WPF in only 1 weapon class or 130/130 WPF split in 2 weapon classes


The formula for the amount of WPP needed to increase WPF by 1 will be very simple:

1-25 WPF = 1 WPP
26-50 WPF = 2 WPP
51-75 WPF = 3 WPP
76-100 WPF = 4 WPP
101-125 WPF = 5 WPP
126-150 WPF = 6 WPP
151-175 WPF = 7 WPP
176-200 WPF = 8 WPP
201-225 WPF = 9 WPP
226-250 WPF = 10 WPP

Not sure on how many WPP each point of WM will offer, but possibly a little more?

*Points in Agility will yield WPP as well

[Torost]

I never liked wpf.

if you have 150 wpf in 2hand.. a master.
You are suddenly a complete beginner if you pick up a 1hand sword.

Makes it really hard to rely on scavenging weapons from the battlefield.
better to use a plain weapon of your dedicated proficency.. then to pick up a MW one with other prof from the battlefield.
if you spread the wpf out on all 3 , you end up with subpar stats in all. And higher upkeep.

If you do not put most of your wpf in throwing or archery. You can not have decent damage or wear any armor.
And you arrows break nomatterwhat your wpf.

much better than the current scheme would be:

Swordmaster
Axemaster
Spearmaster
etc...

Where it did not matter if it was classified as 1 or 2hand. Some might even be throwable when reaching a certain level of wpf, like spears and axes with alternatve mode.

[Rumblood]

I never liked wpf.

if you have 150 wpf in 2hand.. a master.
You are suddenly a complete beginner if you pick up a 1hand sword.

much better than the current scheme would be:

Swordmaster
Axemaster
Spearmaster
etc...

Where it did not matter if it was classified as 1 or 2hand. Some might even be throwable when reaching a certain level of wpf, like spears and axes with alternatve mode.

Put this in a forum where it may find a home. *hint hint*

[Rhaelys]

Per Tydeus' commentary in Nditions Teamspeak:

Current tentative rough being-discussed in-development not-finalized idea for Weapon Master (WM), Weapon Proficency (WPF), and Weapon Proficiency Points (WPP) change

0 Weapon Master yields about 50 WPF for only 1 weapon class

4-5 Weapon Master yields about the same WPF for only 1 weapon class as the 4-5 Weapon Master yields under the current system

8 Weapon Master yields about 170 WPF in only 1 weapon class or 130/130 WPF split in 2 weapon classes


The formula for the amount of WPP needed to increase WPF by 1 will be very simple:

1-25 WPF = 1 WPP
26-50 WPF = 2 WPP
51-75 WPF = 3 WPP
76-100 WPF = 4 WPP
101-125 WPF = 5 WPP
126-150 WPF = 6 WPP
151-175 WPF = 7 WPP
176-200 WPF = 8 WPP
201-225 WPF = 9 WPP
226-250 WPF = 10 WPP

Not sure on how many WPP each point of WM will offer, but possibly a little more?

*Points in Agility will yield WPP as well

What do people feel about this?

[Phew]

What do people feel about this?

Regardless of the actual formula for weapon master, I like the idea of replacing "free" wpf from leveling with wpf from agility points.