Thrower, 1H-Shield hybrid weapon selection...

[juv95hrn]

As per title...

How much Power Throw, WPF, weapon set-up depending on cost, weight, damage, range, etc.

Of course there are many different solutions.

Would Francisca or war darts with PT 2 be too weak? Cost and weight would at least be reasonable. Would 100 Thowing weapon Wpf be enough with them? I suppose so.

If you have any tips, hints on advantages or disadvantages regarding thrower details don't hesitate to share them.


The alternate cost are a few points of IF and a bit lower 1H wpf but that seems to be worth it in some cases. Is the increase in weapon load and cost worth it though?

[Turboflex]

The amount of WPF is highly dependant on armor (extra required for gloves and helm). You need 13 WPF per PT when naked, and with about 50 armor you need 20-21 WPF per PT.

With PT2  you wouldn't be doing much with your throwing weps besides using them to throw at people in cloth/leather (so especially kiting archers) and horses, they still won't hurt much. I would use francescas for that cuz war darts do way less damage. darts have some pierce, but you still won't be hurting armoured gusy much besides headshots or if they running at you for full speed bonus.

Axes and pierce weps (darts/javs/jarids) have different styles of fighting. Axes are fast wind up, so more usable at close range, better against horses too. If some 2h guy is backpeddling on you, you can step back, take out an axe and throw it at him, that will get him to run back to you and stop kiting (hit x to fight with axe if you don't have time to switch). You can really rip them out at 10 yard range and be fine. Much better to bring down horses too, that extra time is often difference between getting it off and not. With javelins+ you can't do that, too slow, very risky. I would recommend going to PT4 and heavy axes. Try jarids later maybe on a skip the fun char and go to PT5 if you like them a lot more.

Javs/jarids are more accurate, and have better velocity, but take longer to throw, so are really more for someone who wants sit back a bit at harass tincans at 20-30 yards. Jarids will really hurt armored people.

Anyways, throwing is great for melee, I probably get 25-30% of my kills on battle (less on siege) with it at cost of only a few % points of characters' skill potential and can bring down multiple horses per round too. Really nice when you are low HP, instead of going out to die in 1 hit you can just stay back and throw at their better players still alive or horses, and still get a couple of kills. Also with throwing you can really pump up your STR as a shielder, since you don't need to worry about being kited, something like 24-12 very viable.

As a whole, it really expands your tactical toolset, and is also really fun too. I dunno why a lot of armored meleers grab xbow instead of throwing, xbow is a sniper weapon (altho you do have shotgunning) that takes you out of fight whilst aiming/reloading, while throwing is an up close wep with no stationary reload, and gives you more tools in a fight. Throwing is a lot more compatable as a range option for a character that's still 95% skilled for melee.

[juv95hrn]

Thank you. Thats a very nice summary and lots of new useful information.

I will play around with differents set ups on my alt which has 4 PT and see if I find a combo that I like for my main or if it will be a pure 1H shielder.

What I would like to test is PT 2 and francescas and war darts but I suppose I will have to do that on a STF since I already put PT 4 in the alt.

I actually do well with Thrown in Siege because there are a lot of limited passages there.

Medium armour and PT 4 and around 100 WPF seems viable after all. I find I miss a lot with this set up but I'm not lvl 30 yet on my thrower alt so maybe it will improve. Will try with ligher gloves and helmet and see if things improve.

Thanks again for sensible feedback!

[Tovi]

Don't go under PT5, that's useless.
Now i'm PT7 lance thrower, and it hurts badly !

[Phew]

If you check on the damage calculator, with only 2 PT, your projectiles will often glance (hit for zero damage). IMHO, if you are going to have throwing at all, get at least 4 PT so you can use Heavy Throwing Axes, or 5PT so you can use Jarids. Those hit hard on just about anyone. Any less investment into throwing, and you would be better off with a crossbow.

I usually use +3 Heavy Throwing Axes with 4 or 5 power throw, which works well enough. They usually one-shot when they strike skull, and archers get 2-shot. Strength guys in heavy armor can take 6+ axes, but often the stun from being hit allows your teammates to kill them.  The HTA melee mode is surprising effective also.

[Turboflex]

For a shielder, if you go over PT 5 you are drifting too much (IMO) into pure thrower territory and out of effective melee territory (2h or polearm with throwing can go 6 PT still). Not that there's anything wrong with that, but you're giving up being able to go toe to toe with heavies in melee. You'd either have to drop down to light mail/leather armor, or go 18/18 to get the weapon mastery necessary to pull that off in decent armor, and with only 6 PS you are gonna have a hella hard time taking on str/plate tincans on siege, slashing weps are basically out of the question, you'd need to use a tricky wep like warhammer or steel pick.

Don't worry about throwing WPF, just get to minimum you need. It won't increase accuracy enough to be worth more investment. Throwing is always a bit random, but practice and getting a better feel for weps will improve your accuracy.

My build is 24/12 with 5 PT

[juv95hrn]

Thanks for advice. It would appear a "light" throwing hybrid with just few PT points and minimum throwing wpt isn't a very good build.

I might try a PT 3 with throwing axe STF just to rule out that option but it makes sense what people say, PT 4 minimum or you do too little damage.

[Digglez]

Thanks for advice. It would appear a "light" throwing hybrid with just few PT points and minimum throwing wpt isn't a very good build.

I might try a PT 3 with throwing axe STF just to rule out that option but it makes sense what people say, PT 4 minimum or you do too little damage.

Heavy throwing axes are by far the most commonly used throwing, so by NOT having PT4, you are basically saying No you dont want a whole bunch of free ammo laying around.

[Sarpton]

I'd listen to digglez when it comes to shield/throwers.  He knows what he's talking about.


Turboflex also.

[Sandersson Jankins]

Although the fine norse folks are probably the most knowledgeable when it comes to the art of throwing things, here's my input:

I did 2 gens of throwing hybrid, and went 21-15 each time. I used 2h as my melee prof one gen and 1h in the other. I almost never use IF in my builds, so I was able to grab both 7 PT and 7 PS. I hit hard as a motherfucker in both categories. I used medium armour around the range of Mail Shirt and sensible boots, gloves, and helm to go with it. I fail to recall the amount of wpf I had in throwing and my chosen melee prof, unfortunately.

So, if you're planning on going thrower hybrid, I'd recommend the 21-15 build. I've heard from several folks that seem very well-informed that for throwing-dominant characters, agility is MUCH more desirable; stacking shit-tons of wpf in throwing is going to do more damage than stacking PT. I'm not much for numbers and formulas; I prefer to make my own decisions based upon anecdotal evidence. Admittedly not the best way to do things, but it's what I do.

[Pentecost]

Does Power Throw lower your effective WPF in the same way that Power Draw does? Because if that's the case, I don't really see the appeal of going above 5 PT myself if we're talking about a hybrid with points in throwing as opposed to a pure thrower.

[Jarlek]

Does Power Throw lower your effective WPF in the same way that Power Draw does? Because if that's the case, I don't really see the appeal of going above 5 PT myself if we're talking about a hybrid with points in throwing as opposed to a pure thrower.

PT also lowers your wpf, but not in exactly the same numbers as PD. I don't remember which one lowers the most.

[Turboflex]

Although the fine norse folks are probably the most knowledgeable when it comes to the art of throwing things, here's my input:

I did 2 gens of throwing hybrid, and went 21-15 each time. I used 2h as my melee prof one gen and 1h in the other. I almost never use IF in my builds, so I was able to grab both 7 PT and 7 PS. I hit hard as a motherfucker in both categories. I used medium armour around the range of Mail Shirt and sensible boots, gloves, and helm to go with it. I fail to recall the amount of wpf I had in throwing and my chosen melee prof, unfortunately.

So, if you're planning on going thrower hybrid, I'd recommend the 21-15 build. I've heard from several folks that seem very well-informed that for throwing-dominant characters, agility is MUCH more desirable; stacking shit-tons of wpf in throwing is going to do more damage than stacking PT. I'm not much for numbers and formulas; I prefer to make my own decisions based upon anecdotal evidence. Admittedly not the best way to do things, but it's what I do.

That's a fine build really, you are just a bit more lighter than I prefer to be since you have to restrict yourself to light mail category armor of around 35-40 while I prefer to be around 45-50. You hit hard enough with 7 PS to kill quickly, but just are really limited on the amount of mistakes you can make against skilled, hard hitting opponents and you die quickly to obnoxious stuff like teamwounds and horsebumps.

Stacking AGI and WPF is really only possible for pure throwers going like 12-24 or 12-27 (I think CHucky does something like this). For anyone who actually wants to wade into a frontline fight to melee 4 PS and and maybe leather armor isn't gonna do much for you. So don't worry about WPF just go up to your minimum.

[Sandersson Jankins]

That's a fine build really, you are just a bit more lighter than I prefer to be since you have to restrict yourself to light mail category armor of around 35-40 while I prefer to be around 45-50. You hit hard enough with 7 PS to kill quickly, but just are really limited on the amount of mistakes you can make against skilled, hard hitting opponents and you die quickly to obnoxious stuff like teamwounds and horsebumps.

Stacking AGI and WPF is really only possible for pure throwers going like 12-24 or 12-27 (I think CHucky does something like this). For anyone who actually wants to wade into a frontline fight to melee 4 PS and and maybe leather armor isn't gonna do much for you. So don't worry about WPF just go up to your minimum.

Yeah, I think that more people would prefer to use your style rather than mine. I try to avoid using IF in my builds as well as avoiding armour any heavier than the tunic/tabard/surcoat mails. I think it may be a cRPG hipster effect, but I like to think that if you're getting hit, you're doing it wrong. It may be frustrating, especially to newish players, but I figure that if you become used to being fragile, your skill in blocking, footwork, evasion, et cetera will increase greatly.

In reply to your second point; I think that I pretty much meant "pure thrower" when I said "throwing dominant". I reckon that you could take people in melee with a pure throwing build, but of course you're going to be very gimped. I would not recommend running in with a 12-27 or 12-24 build against an experienced dedicated melee character. Unless you're very good, very lucky, or have multiple teammates, you will get your ass handed to you very quickly.

However, I feel that if you were to use a 12-24 build with some points in shield, you could be effective in melee up to a point. I've never actually seen anyone do this though; not sure if this is because it is utterly ineffective or if it's simply not done. Really makes me want to attempt it. Something like 4 shield skill or so, using an elite cav shield or similar.

[Turboflex]

I know what you mean, I spent a bunch of gens basically 21-15 in leather, but my scores shot up significantly once I put on 50 armor. It's good training I guess to spend some time in light armor, cuz you do learn better footwork and survival instincts instead of just relying on armor to save you and that has helped me a good deal (my clanmates always complain about my unorthodox movement style I picked up wearing leather, but it works). The reality is there's a lot of stuff out there that can mess you over that you have little chance to avoid, like horsebumps, arrows in the back, teamwounds from wild swinging teammates, etc. With good armor, the more of this you survive, the longer you fight, the better your score, the more you win/get valor.

I agree with you though, I think some of the better pure throwers (artie, chucky, combaticus) would be more effective with a shield, leather armor, some PS and some melee wpf as opposed to what they currently do which is basically grab 4 stacks of throwing and run around in cloth. They could last longer on battlefield by being able to defend themselves properly instead of relying on all or nothing jump-throws.