Economy Backwards...

[Konrax]

The game currently enforces stagnant economy.

Production in a village causes a reduction in prosperity, and selling goods in a fief causes economic prosperity.

These values need to be reversed.

Production creates jobs and labour, which would increase a fiefs prosperity.

On the other hand, constant influx of outside goods would cause the prosperity of the fief to go down as there are fewer things to build and make.



With the current economy villages with low prosperity will continue to be hubs for building trade goods, and no trader from far away would want to sell their goods at such a low price to bring the prosperity up. If the roles are reversed it would FORCE traders to move around, and not sit in one "good" spot and craft all the time.

[chadz]

Production in a village causes a reduction in prosperity, and selling goods in a fief causes economic prosperity.

It's actually totally random.

But we're thinking of changing that.

[Konrax]

Hail Mighty chadz, your presence graces my thread.

I write this because of what I am currently doing in Strat and my observations.

I currently have been sitting in Kulum with about 10 other people in a clan just crafting away at trade goods.

Trading goods:
Salted Cod
Good price: 6 gold
Fief prosperity: -9
Good transaction tax: 1%
Faraway goods bonus: +0%
Selling price: 5.94 gold

I have been here for 2 weeks now just crafting Salted cod and selling them at the next village over, and at this rate I don't see any reason for me to move from this village, or even yet want to travel anywhere outside of this small region I am sitting in.

If creating trade goods in a fief were to increase the prosperity, eventually I would be forced to move because it would be no longer profitable enough to continue to craft there.

Hail chadz!

[Zaharist]

I'm sitting in Kulum since 2nd or 3rd week of Strat. Producing goods. Prosperity keeps falling down.

I love Konrax idea: producing good increases fief prosperity, that will force ppl to change their farm locations.

(click to show/hide)

Decreasing of fief's prosperity should be caused for example by different bad events.
random events like "dry season", "flood", "devastator" etc. They should influence greatly, giving fiefs negative prosperity instantly.
or player events, like raids and attacks.
Also empty villages with high taxes and no ppl working in it should slowly reduce prosperity.


Would be nice if negative prosperity will influence population. for example when the village is taken it has ~100 ppl and -x prosperity. Until it is greater or equal 0  population doesn't grow.
Or if negative random event took place and prosperity become negative then population should slowly decrease to 100 until prosperity >= 0

Population may influence max "efficiency".

Also random chance of rebellion in villages with negative prosperity and low population would be great -)

System like this will make it harder to manage villages and bigger faction will have to think more how to build their empires.
At the moment villages do not demand any management after they are captured.

By the way, Konrax, do you know that you are now 4th guy working on Druzhina in Kulum? ;)

[dodnet]

I believe it wouldn't change much as there are sitting a lot of ppl in each place (village or town) producing something.

[Konrax]

I believe it wouldn't change much as there are sitting a lot of ppl in each place (village or town) producing something.

It would change a lot of stuff trust me.

[Dehitay]

I'm pretty sure most clans have dedicated crafting and selling points as it is. This change would indeed require more flexibility (which would actually turn out bad for us)

[PhantomZero]

There currently is no economy, outside of buying/selling/trading weapons, which is only now able to really get off the ground due to buying/selling in towns.

The "trade good" system is completely random horseshit, there because otherwise people would have to play crpg all the time every day to make money.

There is also no primary level to the "economy", you just simply create the equipment out of gold I guess, which is mined from cRPG and minted into swords.

This change wouldn't require more flexibility, eventually every village would be turned into a 25 gold powerhouse, sure it might cut into the profits, but at the same time due to how dangerous running around might be, it could very beneficial to just sell back to the village.

[Konrax]

I'm talking about the trade goods economy.

If the goal is to get people moving around, the current mechanic isn't supporting this.

[Tristan]

http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,18592.0.html

[PhantomZero]

I'm talking about the trade goods economy.

If the goal is to get people moving around, the current mechanic isn't supporting this.

That's what I'm saying, there is no trade good economy because such a thing doesn't exist.

The mechanic will never support people moving around due to the opportunity cost of having 10 guys go sell their shit in town as opposed to 1 guy.

The trade good system was a simple way to remove the "Work in town" option of the past, nothing other than reducing the amount of gold people make from that changed. It was made more difficult also due to the fact that you must actually be inside the fief to make money and you can't warp around to transfer your gold to people/towns.

[Slamz]

Eh?

Our clan has been selling goods for ~27 gold profit almost since Strategus started back up.  Not sure what we'll get now that the travel bonus has been increased, but "more than that", I'm sure.

Yes, there is a risk in travel but that's standard wargaming: small risk = small gains, big risk = big gains.  Becoming allied with at least one neighbor would be an important money making scheme -- or else securing a large enough swath of the map for yourself and not just two or three villages next to each other.  Max gain is 500%, but consider a more reasonable scenario:

500 goods
Make in a low cost village for 3 each
Sell in a high cost village for 25 each with a travel bonus of 200%
47 profit each = 23,500 profit

Figure 11 people are doing this -- 10 producers and 1 who does nothing but travel.  That's about 42 gold per person per hour.  They'd make about 77k in a week.



Incidentally, if you can get other clans to buy your stuff, there's a lot of potential money there.  Like, tons.

Picture, if you will...

* I can produce one-handed axes for 31 each.
* You can buy them from the market for 63 each.
* I can produce 15 of them per hour (recent change -- used to be you had a 15% chance per skill point; now it's a 100% chance per skill point, assuming the village is also 100%)

So I make 300 of them (20 hours work, 9300 cost) and sell them on the market for 50 each.  You save 13 each, I make 19 each.  That's 5700 gold profit for 20 hours of work.

I just made 285 gold/hour.


And that's for low end crap and relatively low skill points (15).  Let's try mail shirts, which are higher end, and I have 34 skill in them.

* I can produce mail shirts for 82 each
* You can buy them from the market for 199
* I can produce 34 of them per hour

So let's say I make 102 shirts which takes 3 hours and costs 8364 gold (trying to keep my initial investment similar to the axe example).

I sell them for 158.  You save 41 each, I profit 76 each (same price ratio as in my axe example), so 7752 profit for 3 hours of work, which comes out to 2584 gold per hour.


Of course, the question is "who's going to buy mail shirts for 158 each".  Maybe nobody will.  But if you were in a pinch with an enemy attack coming and you needed 102 new mail shirts right now, then maybe you would.  It's cheaper than buying it from a fief.

(Ideally I'd be making +3 mail shirts, which would probably be a lot easier to find buyers for and still make a tremendous profit.)

[Slamz]

P.S.
Don't expect me to keep giving up super-elite-ultra-trade-secrets.  After all, I'm supposed to get rich while all you ignorant scrubs labor away in your single fief for 15 gold per hour.  But I feel the need to point out that you are clearly not thinking this system through.  As simple as it is, there's good ways to make a lot of money.



The real question to ask is "how fast is money entering the system overall" (total money generated) and "how fast is it leaving" (total money destroyed).

That's the big thing chadz has to figure out.  Putting 100 +3 mail shirts on the market is all good and well but in the end it still has to make economic sense for someone, somewhere, to want to buy them, because they just have so much money.  I don't know how much money is generated by a fief, if any, but it should be something fairly substantial in my opinion.

[FRANK_THE_TANK]

Time to send a raiding party to Kulum.

[PhantomZero]

Eh?

Our clan has been selling goods for ~27 gold profit almost since Strategus started back up.  Not sure what we'll get now that the travel bonus has been increased, but "more than that", I'm sure.

Yes, there is a risk in travel but that's standard wargaming: small risk = small gains, big risk = big gains.  Becoming allied with at least one neighbor would be an important money making scheme -- or else securing a large enough swath of the map for yourself and not just two or three villages next to each other.  Max gain is 500%, but consider a more reasonable scenario:

500 goods
Make in a low cost village for 3 each
Sell in a high cost village for 25 each with a travel bonus of 200%
47 profit each = 23,500 profit

Figure 11 people are doing this -- 10 producers and 1 who does nothing but travel.  That's about 42 gold per person per hour.  They'd make about 77k in a week.



Incidentally, if you can get other clans to buy your stuff, there's a lot of potential money there.  Like, tons.

Picture, if you will...

* I can produce one-handed axes for 31 each.
* You can buy them from the market for 63 each.
* I can produce 15 of them per hour (recent change -- used to be you had a 15% chance per skill point; now it's a 100% chance per skill point, assuming the village is also 100%)

So I make 300 of them (20 hours work, 9300 cost) and sell them on the market for 50 each.  You save 13 each, I make 19 each.  That's 5700 gold profit for 20 hours of work.

I just made 285 gold/hour.


And that's for low end crap and relatively low skill points (15).  Let's try mail shirts, which are higher end, and I have 34 skill in them.

* I can produce mail shirts for 82 each
* You can buy them from the market for 199
* I can produce 34 of them per hour

So let's say I make 102 shirts which takes 3 hours and costs 8364 gold (trying to keep my initial investment similar to the axe example).

I sell them for 158.  You save 41 each, I profit 76 each (same price ratio as in my axe example), so 7752 profit for 3 hours of work, which comes out to 2584 gold per hour.


Of course, the question is "who's going to buy mail shirts for 158 each".  Maybe nobody will.  But if you were in a pinch with an enemy attack coming and you needed 102 new mail shirts right now, then maybe you would.  It's cheaper than buying it from a fief.

(Ideally I'd be making +3 mail shirts, which would probably be a lot easier to find buyers for and still make a tremendous profit.)

P.S.
Don't expect me to keep giving up super-elite-ultra-trade-secrets.  After all, I'm supposed to get rich while all you ignorant scrubs labor away in your single fief for 15 gold per hour.  But I feel the need to point out that you are clearly not thinking this system through.  As simple as it is, there's good ways to make a lot of money.



The real question to ask is "how fast is money entering the system overall" (total money generated) and "how fast is it leaving" (total money destroyed).

That's the big thing chadz has to figure out.  Putting 100 +3 mail shirts on the market is all good and well but in the end it still has to make economic sense for someone, somewhere, to want to buy them, because they just have so much money.  I don't know how much money is generated by a fief, if any, but it should be something fairly substantial in my opinion.

Yeah no shit, I'm not saying people are doing that now, but if it was made so that every village was at 25 gold, due to having lots of people crafting in them and raising the prosperity, then it would probably be cheaper and faster to just sell them back to the village for 10 gold in profit, or you would need to have more people running around delivering goods 50 at a time instead of 500.

Losing a caravan of 500 goods would sink you, and prevent you from

Also, you aren't considering that 10 people make 240 goods per day, which 1 person would not be able to transport by himself very easily, or at least without upkeep. You also assume that 10 people would craft 1 item every hour (10 people even doing nothing in the town drops the rate significantly).

I agree with you on the equipment, which is the only place any sort of economy can appear, it will likely flourish now that towns can sell goods.

Fiefs do not generate any money unless non-faction players are paying rent, or anyone comes and sells goods to the village.