Messages

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General / Re: Donkey team no longer developing M:BG / OKAM

« on: December 23, 2017, 09:37:44 am »

I haven't commented on the animations, though I find them decent enough.. I had been suggesting better animations on the feedback page but the new devs didn't work on it or any other combat related issues, sadly.

What I was mainly referring to was the one mouse button option. If you think about real life sword combat it's silly to think that there would be one stance for attacking and one for blocking. You would be in one stance hoping to block and attack well from that position.

Blocking on RMB makes sense for shields, however. Okam had a second option to block with them, too, although I always thought they did a poor job with it. Blocking with the shield should be your first option. That's what you got it for. Yet, in Okam it was so unreliable that you couldn't actually use it in Melee combat at all, so your best chance was to utilize the LMB weapon block function and only rely on your shield for passive protection.

That's one thing where I thought Warband's force field shields were the better mechanic.

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General / Re: Donkey team no longer developing M:BG / OKAM

« on: December 22, 2017, 11:55:26 am »

There is a point where limiting your combat system to fit realism is damaging to the point that it starts to feel too clunky and limited

Agreed.

as is the case in OKAM

And that's where the opinions differ. I found it more enjoyable because of the changes they made, you didn't. I'm fine with that.

Adding realism to player actions can add tons of skill into a game, even if it means limiting the player in some ways. I don't think it necessarily happened in OKAM though.

Slowing things down can make the choices players make more tactical so there is more emphasis on making good decisions rather than quick reflexes and twitch aiming. It can also add a bit of difficulty in working with the limitations put on the character. Like in Red Orchestra or other tactical shooters you have more accuracy when stationary and your character has momentum. So to fire you might have to counteract the momentum and fire with timing that comes from lots of practice. Or you have unsteady hands so you have to adjust the aim accordingly. Realism can add loads of skill and depth into a game. I would have been quite happy if OKAM went with some realism for character actions if it meant for a more deep and rewarding combat system. You don't add realism for the sake of it though. You do it because it adds depth to the gameplay.

I can agree with that.
In fact I and many others didn't like what they did with jumping. I would have prefered the more realistical approach of being able to jump over small obstacles without any combat significance. Instead they chose to make it a viable tool for combat, so people were flying through the air swinging their weapon. I didn't like that at all. Never liked it in Warband either.

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General / Re: Donkey team no longer developing M:BG / OKAM

« on: December 22, 2017, 10:23:46 am »

People who take more enjoyment out of a realistic movement system in contrast to an arcade one. For instance, I take more enjoyment out of games like ArmA or Red Orchestra than games like Quake or Unreal. Doesn't mean either is objectively better than the other.

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General / Re: Donkey team no longer developing M:BG / OKAM

« on: December 22, 2017, 09:30:27 am »

Yes, evident in your OKAM fanboyism despite having played 1300 hours of Warband. We wouldn't be having these discussions if you knew anything about Warband's complexities.

I don't usually overanalyze game mechanics to death. I just play instinctively and I can tell when a combat system feels right and when it doesn't meaning that it corresponds with the actions I want my character to do.

You've changed your tone on this one; I remember you directly saying that the way in which attack angles could be adjusted in Warband was unrealistic. I'm certain you made other autistic realism arguments too.

Well, I think it is more realistic but that doesn't mean shit. I can have fun with the most unrealistic system if it allows me to play the way I feel I should be able to. For instance, I think the most realistic melee combat system might be Kingdom Come's, yet after having played the beta a couple of times I don't find it enjoyable at all and I'd rather have something simple like Skyrim. Maybe I will change my stance on that still, we will see.

It's not even an argument, just a retarded OKAM buzzword, without any details or facts like all your opinions on the matter.

Fluid meaning, that you don't have to press different buttons all the time like in Warband which was a constant LMB/RMB clickfest. You only need to hold down LMB and move, making it more enjoyable for me.

OKAM's combat being a lot more restrictive than Warband's isn't a matter of opinion, the turn rate is slower, attack angling is reduced, these are facts bro.

Sure, the opinion part is whether you enjoy those changes or not.

At the end of the day you can tell me how great OKAM is all you want, but when you say that it's a superior system to Warband, you can expect me to call out your lack of comprehension.

I get your position. If I ever called Okam's combat objectively superior, I'd like to refrain from that. It's only superior in my opinion. ^^

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General / Re: Donkey team no longer developing M:BG / OKAM

« on: December 21, 2017, 11:38:53 pm »

Am I? If you have 1 kill and 2 deaths, the ratio is 0.5 which is what we would call a "negative" KD. If it's 2 kills and 1 death ratio is 2, making it positive.

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General / Re: Donkey team no longer developing M:BG / OKAM

« on: December 21, 2017, 10:05:24 pm »

I guess a KD ratio smaller than 1 would be the equivalent of negative.

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General / Re: Donkey team no longer developing M:BG / OKAM

« on: December 21, 2017, 02:37:19 pm »

A bit salty about that tbh. I have done some seriously shitty shitposting in my day but that was UBER-Shitposting.

(click to show/hide)

This is the part where pogo comes in and says he backed it all up for meme value crosses fingers

I feel you... I never got to beat Golem 

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General / Re: Donkey team no longer developing M:BG / OKAM

« on: December 21, 2017, 09:12:56 am »

I admit that controls are hard to get into and the situation for the entire year was that everybody still playing was quite good at it leaving new players no choice to get some kills in making them leave frustatedly. Which is pretty similar to cRPG, I feel. Many really good players around there.

When you go on native you still find many average players so you can shine despite not being top tier.

The reason Okam did bad was mainly because of its bad marketing and failed promises. The combat was the only thing that made it stick out. M&B always had a better chance at surviving, being both MP and SP with a huge amount of mods and dedicated fan base.

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General / Re: Donkey team no longer developing M:BG / OKAM

« on: December 21, 2017, 09:00:08 am »

Hehe, maybe. Don't remember that one.

I liked the Okam Defense Squad, despite not actually being that accurate.

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General / Re: Donkey team no longer developing M:BG / OKAM

« on: December 21, 2017, 08:33:54 am »

The reason you'll continue to be ridiculed here is because you've only ever had two arguments, those being "in my opinion it is more fluid!" and "warband is less realistic!". Oh, and can't forget the classic OKAM fanboy meme, "you never played it enough to truly understand it!!", even though I regularly went 40-0 back when the servers actually had players.

I don't think it's a matter of how long you've played it. You can have hundreds of hours in a game and never truly understand its mechanics.
I don't think either Warband or Okam are particularly realistic. It's about fun and intuitiveness, rather than realism. To the fluidity argument I stand.

You admitted yourself that you were never a competitive player in either game, yet you would constantly talk trash about how OKAM's combat was superior.

I don't think I made an objective statement about it, as it always comes down to opinion.
Me, not being a top tier dueller shouldn't matter. I'm the average player's opinion which is valid, too. Also, I would say I did pretty well in both games but a lot better in Okam.

It was all about cheesing people into dropping their blocks because they had to move the camera to stay facing the opponent. Just silly spamming on one side and the other or holding attacks until they have to turn so the block drops. There was a stance lock key but I found it fiddly as hell. There was also a setting in the options that locked a stance by default, but it was also very clunky and came with its own downsides to play like that.

Yeah, stance lock by default wasn't a viable way to fight in that game. I personally learned to play well with the stance lock key, others like Nemesis or Ramses never used it and they were always top scorer in matches.
I developed a defensive play style so spamming against me or trying to circle me wouldn't have been effective.

There wasn't really any block stun

There was bad block. You get a slight stun when not being in the perfect stance which slows you down. I didn't particularly like it, but many people swore in it.

you couldn't really aim attacks

Yeah, you could. I believe Kaktus especially had been criticised for abusing the aim mechanic more than most.

Maybe they improved it a bit at some point, but I was already pretty bored of it and felt like the core of the game wasn't going to improve enough

Fair enough

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General / Re: Donkey team no longer developing M:BG / OKAM

« on: December 20, 2017, 11:54:18 pm »

So many okam diehard fans and shills even now believe the game had the best combat system, it's hilarious. The combat was a clunky, sluggish mess with stiff and ugly animations and horrible controls. Every "feature" these brainwashed bubble-dwellers think improved the combat (such as more attack directions or left click for everything) didn't actually put any depth on the system.
Their argument? You didn't put enough hours in it; I don't need to put in hundreds of hours in another FPS game for example to be able to tell it's garbage. The things that were wrong with OKAM's combat were very obvious and detectable fast to anyone with veteran experience in the genre.

Ok, I know it's easy ridiculing any dissenting opinion on that matter on this forum since every one who hates Okam has stayed here, and everybody who loved it had moved to Okam discord. I know I can't convince you and you wouldn't care either way.

Let me just say this:
I played Warband for 1300+ hours and I loved the combat system. I played Okam a couple of times and found it awkward until I got the gist of things and slowly learned to appreciate it for how fluid and intuitive it actually felt. It took me a couple of days, though. I went back to Warband a few times after that and while I still loved Warband for what it was I've been convinced that Okam's controls offer something more.

I'll just leave it at that.

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General / Re: Donkey team no longer developing M:BG / OKAM

« on: December 18, 2017, 09:14:36 pm »

Well Sigibert since its over, I for one would like to welcome you back to cRPG. You would be most welcome with us Norse if FCoR don't make it here

Thanks. I was never much of a cRPG player but if FCoR decides to migrate to cRPG I might give it a try.

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General / Re: Donkey team no longer developing M:BG / OKAM

« on: December 18, 2017, 12:43:57 pm »

Well, I'm entitled to my opinion just a you are.
Cute lamb though

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General / Re: Donkey team no longer developing M:BG / OKAM

« on: December 18, 2017, 11:59:50 am »

but it's hard to have sympathy when it took them so long to stop false advertising (did they ever?)

Yeah, they did eventually, like 3 months ago.

and the devs were still promising the moon and the stars until recently, with their noble community champion, pogosan, leading the charge.

They did? I've been blaming them for almost the entire year that didn't dare promising anything great anymore since they got burnt so severely after DC left. We even made some great suggestions on the feedback page, many of which weren't even commented on. Now I know why...

Idk why they didnt just stick to 360° attacks, and keep the rest of the Warband system (with a better collision system maybe?). Thats all we really need in Bannerlord too, hope they dont fuck this up.

Because what they came up with was better... I'm still sad that Bannerlord will be better in almost all respects but the melee combat controls. Guess it has to work for controllers as well...

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General / Re: Donkey team no longer developing M:BG / OKAM

« on: November 04, 2017, 04:11:19 pm »

Yeah, nobody uses the forum. They're all on discord